Gran Premio de España 2013

Who will win the Spanish Grand Prix?

Sebastian Vettel
5
23%
Kimi Raikkonen
4
18%
Lewis Hamilton
3
14%
Fernando Alonso
5
23%
Mark Webber
2
9%
Felipe Massa
1
5%
Romain Grosjean
0
No votes
Paul di Resta
0
No votes
Nico Rosberg
0
No votes
Jenson Button
1
5%
Sergio Perez
1
5%
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 22

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Re: Gran Premio de España 2013

Post by mikhailv » 15 May 2013, 08:32

Yeah, the fans are retarded to be completely blunt. 'waaah waaah fake racing'. What was it 3 years ago? 'waaah waaah no overtaking boring procession no racing'. THEN they said 'waaah waaah we need to cut downforce' Pirelli do that and its 'waaah waaaah my teams losing change it back'.

This is why I hate 90% of Formula 1 fans.

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Re: Gran Premio de España 2013

Post by mikhailv » 15 May 2013, 08:46

Ether wrote:Okay I agree that tyres was always been important every year. But tyres should have been a factor that is equal to any parts or components involved in the cars. Tyres is important, no cars can run without tyres, but remember that engine, aero, suspension, steering, exhaust, and ao many other things should have been involved in producing the best car. Problem is, right now tyres is too dominant factor than other factors.. I might be wrong, I'm not an engineer, and I probably don't have enough understandings on these, but I feel dominant factor on tyres was not correct.

Regarding Bridgestone and Michelin rivalry, I believe it was nothing wrong. It's something normal, it depends on how they use it. It's like how they use the engine. In this situation, I believe was still normal, because tyres were equal importance as engine. As probably any other parts.
But nowadays Pirelli is unpredictable. If one team really do make it really well, I'd say Ferrari and Lotus. But could you explain what's the factor when they did badly in some tracks. Not suitable with the tracks? I don't really think so.. Lotus was bad in Sepang, why??

If we measure well on what the teams or cars could done with those tyres, we will probably still see some consistent results. This is I believe something all you fan don't like to see.. But remember, this is about who do the best job right? From time to time, everybody will know what is the key to solve tyre problems. But tyre problems should have been a consistent to read IF the tyres itself IS CONSISTENT!
I have some faith that Pirelli is somewhere more than producing exciting race with highly degradeable tyres. He might probably playing on their tyres, the consistency of tyres is probably changed in every race, and teams should learn every time. Teams just need to know what pirelli is doing and find the right numbers to do the right thing
So do tell what the difference is with the Pirelli's then. Its upto the teams to change the car and how they use the tyre which is identical for everyone. Your also wrong about the tyres being equal to the engine. If thats so, why didn't Toyota win in 2006 with what was a really solid TF106? Because the engine was 70bhp down on the top teams. Thats not equal.

No engine is equal in formula 1. Ferrari units are massively different to Renault and Mercedes units. Is it fair that renault have less horsepower but more traction? Is it fair that Ferrari is a balance of both? Is it fair that Mercedes units are more powerful but less traction? They all have the same specs to build to but its different philosophys, so again, how you can criticise Pirelli for giving equality dumbfounds me.

All this shows is that fans are stupid and look for excuses for the present and rose tints for the past. What you've done is just totally contradict yourself. The tyres are consistent. Teams know how long they will last on THEIR car. Its showing the design philosophies for the cars and how they punish the tyres.

I mean lets take your top paragraph about everything being equal to each other. Thats wrong. Tyres aren't the dominant factor in formula 1, its the design of the car which is the dominant factor. Tyres are identical for everyone If your car is designed right, its plain sailing. If you design your car downforce heavy, its your fault. RBR have a tendancy to cry about horsepower but then purposely go for a max downforce set up to exaggerate their problem.

Take Monza, Lotus were in the top 4 of the speed trap. Redbull were bottom. Same engine. Its all down to car set-up. RBR thing downforce is king when in reality like you said, its a combination of all. Instead they just go downforce, downforce, downforce and hope that nobody can get within slipstream range. Look at USA GP last year; Lewis breezed past, helped by DRS but the fact was, Vettel couldnt pull away on the straights because they set-up for maximum downforce.

Car design is always the most important. Its never about having the maximum downforce, its about having enough downforce with a powerful enough engine which doesnt overheat and is in sync with the gearbox with exhausts positioned correctly so they dont burn the tyres and the suspension gemotry doesnt overwork the tyres.

Remember 2011 with the hard tyre in Abu Dhabi? RBR were already told about excess camber on the tyres, excess blowing and heat onto the tyres. Its RBR's downforce over all philosophy which is costing them now. They've lost all their tricks in the book, DD, EBD, Engine mapping, theyre gone.

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Re: Gran Premio de España 2013

Post by Ether » 15 May 2013, 14:48

I still not believe that Pirelli provide consistent tyres in every race... I just still think it is not consistent.

They were probably doing right in 2012, we could see teams are all improving in understanding the tyres. But in this year, it was hugely inconsistency, why sometimes one team could use it very well, then on the next race they couldn't do any better? Maybe I need to learn more about that, this could be a limitation of my knowledge.

why they change the tyres in 2013? Not enough overtaking? Are you kidding me? I think the reason why Pirelli still want to make this so marginally I guess it was pushed by some teams who was losing! They wanted to shake up the grid, and maybe... maybe they could be in a better position.. But we seen quite some concern on those DELAMINATIONS... do you think it really was because the debris? all of those? and I remembered Jenson blew his tyres after huge lock up, that was amazingly dangerous! It's just too marginal.

And by the way, this discussion about tyres are all losing Pirelli's image. Especially for those who don't watch F1 religiously and those who don't watch F1 at all. Yesterday, I watch news and there is headline stating like: "Pirelli being criticized in F1"
That would simply destroy his own image anyway, that's not the fault of the reporters too anyway, the reporters might not watching or understand about tyres in F1 too.. He might not even know that the tyres was made as the fans wanted. But the news will be read and watch by millions of people in my country, I believe this tyres news will also rolling on many other countries. And finally I believe, Pirelli will make it better. Until the critics stops.

Critics is critics and we have to accept it. Pirelli was criticized too back in 2012. But they were talking about understanding the tyres, not about how bad it is the degradation or delamination that happen for many times... Yet, when the teams understood how to manage the tyres back in 2012, no more critics roll again. So it's just simply stop.
We could see back in 2012, teams are getting better in performance as to understanding the tyres by time. In this year, it's a different story, some are still confused on what happen, and it's something not quite right. If it happened in first 2-3 race, then I think it's still understandably normal. We're in race 5 and still mystery in it.

Please understand that I'm not Vettel or RB fan! I am a Hamilton fan, yet I still not expect he could achieve win very soon. But watching 2nd finishing in 12th without any accident for Hamilton is very intrigued me.. He never been in so much trouble as far as I remember when his car had no problem. (Yes I know he had brake problems, but I believe he will not be that far than Nico anyway, probably 7th or 8th).
I'm not a Ferrari fan, but I'm happy Alonso won in Spain! He could spice up the WDC. and I think Alonso is about time to take great achievements in Ferrari! maybe a WDC and WCC! Lotus would probably the only team that I dislike being in podium yesterday, even they had done a great job, and so was Kimi. They just don't have the mentality of being a champion, that's all.
All in all, I guess the only team who is quite understand the tyres very well probably is Ferrari! and the next one is Lotus. FI did a very consistent job too anyway, they seems to know something about tyres.. Let's see if they could resolve the mystery very soon? in 8th race???

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Re: Gran Premio de España 2013

Post by F1EA » 15 May 2013, 16:08

Tire consistency also has to do with track conditions (temperature, tire loading, surface, etc). So to call a tire "consistent" means all tracks are the same all the time. Does not happen. What CAN happen is that a team fails to understand how all these factors evolve and affect their performance, or fail to design a car which can be made to be fast (faster than the others) under those changing conditions.

Last weekend, the winner had to: make a couple of passes at the start, make a pass through pit stop, keep a gap to a car on a fewer stops strategy. Compare that to: start on pole, develop a gap early on while on clean air, then win.

Case closed.

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Re: Gran Premio de España 2013

Post by mikhailv » 15 May 2013, 16:26

Ether wrote:I still not believe that Pirelli provide consistent tyres in every race... I just still think it is not consistent.

They were probably doing right in 2012, we could see teams are all improving in understanding the tyres. But in this year, it was hugely inconsistency, why sometimes one team could use it very well, then on the next race they couldn't do any better? Maybe I need to learn more about that, this could be a limitation of my knowledge.

why they change the tyres in 2013? Not enough overtaking? Are you kidding me? I think the reason why Pirelli still want to make this so marginally I guess it was pushed by some teams who was losing! They wanted to shake up the grid, and maybe... maybe they could be in a better position.. But we seen quite some concern on those DELAMINATIONS... do you think it really was because the debris? all of those? and I remembered Jenson blew his tyres after huge lock up, that was amazingly dangerous! It's just too marginal.

And by the way, this discussion about tyres are all losing Pirelli's image. Especially for those who don't watch F1 religiously and those who don't watch F1 at all. Yesterday, I watch news and there is headline stating like: "Pirelli being criticized in F1"
That would simply destroy his own image anyway, that's not the fault of the reporters too anyway, the reporters might not watching or understand about tyres in F1 too.. He might not even know that the tyres was made as the fans wanted. But the news will be read and watch by millions of people in my country, I believe this tyres news will also rolling on many other countries. And finally I believe, Pirelli will make it better. Until the critics stops.

Critics is critics and we have to accept it. Pirelli was criticized too back in 2012. But they were talking about understanding the tyres, not about how bad it is the degradation or delamination that happen for many times... Yet, when the teams understood how to manage the tyres back in 2012, no more critics roll again. So it's just simply stop.
We could see back in 2012, teams are getting better in performance as to understanding the tyres by time. In this year, it's a different story, some are still confused on what happen, and it's something not quite right. If it happened in first 2-3 race, then I think it's still understandably normal. We're in race 5 and still mystery in it.

Please understand that I'm not Vettel or RB fan! I am a Hamilton fan, yet I still not expect he could achieve win very soon. But watching 2nd finishing in 12th without any accident for Hamilton is very intrigued me.. He never been in so much trouble as far as I remember when his car had no problem. (Yes I know he had brake problems, but I believe he will not be that far than Nico anyway, probably 7th or 8th).
I'm not a Ferrari fan, but I'm happy Alonso won in Spain! He could spice up the WDC. and I think Alonso is about time to take great achievements in Ferrari! maybe a WDC and WCC! Lotus would probably the only team that I dislike being in podium yesterday, even they had done a great job, and so was Kimi. They just don't have the mentality of being a champion, that's all.
All in all, I guess the only team who is quite understand the tyres very well probably is Ferrari! and the next one is Lotus. FI did a very consistent job too anyway, they seems to know something about tyres.. Let's see if they could resolve the mystery very soon? in 8th race???
Tell me a tyre which was consistent at every race :P

All the tyres have variables; temperature, abrasiveness of the track, operating window. No tyre ever operated consistently. Believe it or not, these tyres ARE consistent! Hot temperatures force 4 stops, cooler does 2 or 3 stops. Its that simple, it really is. Look at Australia and China; cooler temperatures; 2 or 3 stops. Barcelona and Bahrain, 3 to 4 stops. Malaysia wouldve been a 4-stop due to heat if it wasn't raining. There is complete consistency with the tyres IMO.

I dont think Ferrari necesserily understand the tyre, neither does lotus or FI, what they have done, is build a car around the philosophy of being softer on the tyres, they've never had mass downforce at the rear. This is why they succeed; they didnt go for exhaust blowing and excessive rear downforce. Their design philosophy suits the tyres, much like Renaults suited the Michelin and Bridgestone the Ferrari, whereas Honda didnt truly suit the Michelin and suffered heavily on Bridgestones.

Ferrari put this in motion in 2011 with Hamashima; they knew the tyres were getting softer in 2012, and again in 2013; teams were told well in advance. RBR refuse to adapt, they think the rules should be built around them instead of building a car around the rules. These tyres are identical for all; you can see the car philosophies which are tyre-heavy/downforce heavy, and those which aren't.

The perfect combination was always a mix of downforce, grip/mechanical grip, reliability, engine power, traction and tyre usage/suspension geometry. Redbull have lost their excessive downforce ace in the hole and its costing them.

RBR cry for a rule change rather than adapt their car; Ferrari chose to adapt their car rather can cry for a rule change. You tell me, which is more sporting; adaption or whinging?

*I dont support any team in Formula 1. I only support Alonso as Renault F1 pulled out in 2009.

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Re: Gran Premio de España 2013

Post by sermilan » 15 May 2013, 19:20

mikhailv wrote:All this shows is that fans are stupid and look for excuses for the present and rose tints for the past.
I think you're a bit harsh on this.
Alonso has recently said that he drives with 80% of his abilities and Hamilton also agreed on that.
Then it's either all the teams missed their car designs massively or there is really something wrong with the tires.

Personally, I would like to see more durable tires even with less quality specifications (if necessary). It wouldn't be just a train of cars as it was until 3 years a go, as we now have DRS and KERS to help overtaking. Introducing more durable tires would bring back some more wheel-to-wheel action, in my opinion.

It's just that too many times per race we can hear a team slowing its driver down and that's sad.

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Re: Gran Premio de España 2013

Post by phil1993 » 15 May 2013, 19:27

'People always see the past better than it was, the present worse than it is, and the future less resolved than it will be.'

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Re: Gran Premio de España 2013

Post by Ether » 16 May 2013, 07:15

phil1993 wrote:'People always see the past better than it was, the present worse than it is, and the future less resolved than it will be.'
No, I don't think so.. 2012 is for sure better than 2011. 2010 was great, but I like more 2012, it's quite unpredictable. But 2013 is too much.. too unpredictable and hard to understand..

I read in skysports, seems like Martin Brundle had his patience ran out as well just because of tyres. Too complex to comment, and to follow things. He was massively disagree with this marginal tyres. It's just too much. It's better of course if Pirelli change his tyres back to 2012 specs. And by reverting so, I don't really think it will disadvantage Ferrari and Lotus though, they will still perform well. The difference is, other teams could do well too, so this could result to a more competitive situation.. Don't you guys want a race and hard fight between teams?

I think Pirelli had decided a good one by reverting to 2012 specs. Even Bernie also noted that the tyre is wrong, then Pirelli probably concern more about media critics, not fan critics. After so many excuses, Paul Hembery always saying that F1 fans asking for it, but finally Bernie felt too that something is wrong, it's the tyres.

I agree by the statement of Bouillier that reverting back to 2012 spec tyres will just like widening football goals, it will be easier for teams (more than Ferrari and Lotus), to perform.. So what's the bad thing to revert 2012 spec? I don't see any! If Ferrari and Lotus had done a great job in this very small window and highly degradable tyres of 2013 spec, I believe Ferrari and Lotus could just perform as well as in 2012 tyres. We will see that very soon. If that the situation, I believe Ferrari and Lotus are not disadvantaged by the decision. It's just more teams are helped. RBR and Mercedes especially. So probably this could spice up the race :roll::

I believe all teams which has worked their cars so well in 2013 tyres, wouldn't have any disadvantage on 2012 tyres. Because, their philosophy actually been developed since earlier than 2012, except Mercedes and Mclaren with a new car and a new brand philosophy. But the philosophy of course is basically brought from 2012 situation and develop to 2013 change of rules..

I'm glad that Pirelli deliberately decide to revert 2012 spec start in Canada. That's good news, so that teams could compete just in the much better way. Racing. That's all I hope for. We hope to see the car is perform on at least 95% of the car performance in Sunday race. not 80-90% like what we saw in Bahrain and Spain especially. Mostly critics were about how slow the drivers race! errr.. sorry, manage the tyres..

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Re: Gran Premio de España 2013

Post by dacer » 16 May 2013, 07:42

phil1993 wrote:'People always see the past better than it was, the present worse than it is, and the future less resolved than it will be.'
+1

mode offtopic on
If you were in spain today, you will not see any future (economic crisis)
mode offtopic off

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Re: Gran Premio de España 2013

Post by mikhailv » 16 May 2013, 08:52

Ether wrote:
phil1993 wrote:'People always see the past better than it was, the present worse than it is, and the future less resolved than it will be.'
No, I don't think so.. 2012 is for sure better than 2011. 2010 was great, but I like more 2012, it's quite unpredictable. But 2013 is too much.. too unpredictable and hard to understand..

I read in skysports, seems like Martin Brundle had his patience ran out as well just because of tyres. Too complex to comment, and to follow things. He was massively disagree with this marginal tyres. It's just too much. It's better of course if Pirelli change his tyres back to 2012 specs. And by reverting so, I don't really think it will disadvantage Ferrari and Lotus though, they will still perform well. The difference is, other teams could do well too, so this could result to a more competitive situation.. Don't you guys want a race and hard fight between teams?

I think Pirelli had decided a good one by reverting to 2012 specs. Even Bernie also noted that the tyre is wrong, then Pirelli probably concern more about media critics, not fan critics. After so many excuses, Paul Hembery always saying that F1 fans asking for it, but finally Bernie felt too that something is wrong, it's the tyres.

I agree by the statement of Bouillier that reverting back to 2012 spec tyres will just like widening football goals, it will be easier for teams (more than Ferrari and Lotus), to perform.. So what's the bad thing to revert 2012 spec? I don't see any! If Ferrari and Lotus had done a great job in this very small window and highly degradable tyres of 2013 spec, I believe Ferrari and Lotus could just perform as well as in 2012 tyres. We will see that very soon. If that the situation, I believe Ferrari and Lotus are not disadvantaged by the decision. It's just more teams are helped. RBR and Mercedes especially. So probably this could spice up the race :roll::

I believe all teams which has worked their cars so well in 2013 tyres, wouldn't have any disadvantage on 2012 tyres. Because, their philosophy actually been developed since earlier than 2012, except Mercedes and Mclaren with a new car and a new brand philosophy. But the philosophy of course is basically brought from 2012 situation and develop to 2013 change of rules..

I'm glad that Pirelli deliberately decide to revert 2012 spec start in Canada. That's good news, so that teams could compete just in the much better way. Racing. That's all I hope for. We hope to see the car is perform on at least 95% of the car performance in Sunday race. not 80-90% like what we saw in Bahrain and Spain especially. Mostly critics were about how slow the drivers race! errr.. sorry, manage the tyres..
Kimi Raikkonen; 1 win 2 podiums,
Romain Grosjean: 0 wins 0 podiums
Sebastien Vettel; 2 wins 1 podium
Mark Webber; 0 wins 1 podium
Fernando Alonso; 2 wins 1 podium
Felipe Massa: 0 wins 1 podium
Nico rosberg: 0 win2 0 podiums
Lewis Hamilton: 0 wins 2 podiums

Top 10;
1. Vettel
2. Raikkonen
3. Alonso
4. Hamilton
5. Massa
6. Webber
7. Grosjean
8. Rosberg
9. Di resta
10. Button

Unpredictable? The top 10 are the 5 top teams apart from Di Resta. The top 4 are the 4 number 1 drivers of the 4 best teams followed by the number 2 drivers of the 4 best teams. I dont understand how its unpredictable in the slightest. Upredictable asin the teams cant do a computer simulation and work out the race result Saturday night?

And ofcourse Lotus and Ferrari and Force india are disadvantages. They've got the sweet spot for these tyres. Widenning the goal posts merely allows those who didnt do as good a job the ability to do a better one, not through car design and adaption but by crying for a rule change.

Its like me being paid £7 and hour to do a job to the best quality possible but my co-worker wont do it, so they pay him more to do the same job. How is that fair? Tyres are the same for all so adapt your car, simple as. If your losing in a game you dont change the rules to suit you, you change yourself to suit the rules. Ferrari didnt cry for a rule change in 2011 when the hard tyres didn't suit them. They adapted their car to suit the tyres. You tell me why other teams shouldn't do that? Why should teams who arent doing as good a job as Ferrari want the rules changed when Ferrari hired someone to fix the problems their car had?

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Re: Gran Premio de España 2013

Post by Ether » 16 May 2013, 14:34

Unpredictable on how they perform.. That is what I mean. Looking at statistics is always speaking the global and yes it's correct that it seems predictable.

Why do they need to change the tyres? Simple. Media critics have been harsh on Pirelli, if they do nothing, their image will be broken. Simple. The second reason is, majority team cannot perform well, the only team seems to understand well about the tyres are Ferrari, Lotus and FI. Others are still confused about the tyres consistency or how they perform.. Tell me if I'm wrong. This situation is different to last year, which is everybody struggling and everybody find well how 2012 tyres perform later after few races. But this year, 3 teams which is consistently know about tyres are only those teams, and no other teams seems to join the understanding very well. Even RB! Ironically they won 2 races!

By the way, Pirelli has been very strong and never care about whining teams anyway. They finally decide to revert 2012 specs because there were too much fuss about tyres, and that's not simply because of teams telling to media, but fans and media could simply quote any team radio talks like: "i can't drive any slower!" or "do we want to fight?" or "save tyres! Save tyres!" or "be carefully, save tyres, hold position!". Is it really what you would like to see?

I think of course it's better to see they drive and race. Not drive and manage the tyres.

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Re: Gran Premio de España 2013

Post by Ether » 16 May 2013, 14:34

The conclusion is Pirelli is reverting to last year tyres because they want to do it. Not because other teams whining. And I bwlieve it is the correct decision. Just for the sake of F1.

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Re: Gran Premio de España 2013

Post by dacer » 16 May 2013, 15:30

Ether wrote:The conclusion is Pirelli is reverting to last year tyres because they ...
... like last year results more than 2013

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Re: Gran Premio de España 2013

Post by F1EA » 16 May 2013, 15:41

Ether wrote:
phil1993 wrote:'People always see the past better than it was, the present worse than it is, and the future less resolved than it will be.'
No, I don't think so.. 2012 is for sure better than 2011. 2010 was great, but I like more 2012, it's quite unpredictable. But 2013 is too much.. too unpredictable and hard to understand..

I read in skysports, seems like Martin Brundle had his patience ran out as well just because of tyres. Too complex to comment, and to follow things. He was massively disagree with this marginal tyres. It's just too much. It's better of course if Pirelli change his tyres back to 2012 specs. And by reverting so, I don't really think it will disadvantage Ferrari and Lotus though, they will still perform well. The difference is, other teams could do well too, so this could result to a more competitive situation.. Don't you guys want a race and hard fight between teams?

I think Pirelli had decided a good one by reverting to 2012 specs. Even Bernie also noted that the tyre is wrong, then Pirelli probably concern more about media critics, not fan critics. After so many excuses, Paul Hembery always saying that F1 fans asking for it, but finally Bernie felt too that something is wrong, it's the tyres.

I agree by the statement of Bouillier that reverting back to 2012 spec tyres will just like widening football goals, it will be easier for teams (more than Ferrari and Lotus), to perform.. So what's the bad thing to revert 2012 spec? I don't see any! If Ferrari and Lotus had done a great job in this very small window and highly degradable tyres of 2013 spec, I believe Ferrari and Lotus could just perform as well as in 2012 tyres. We will see that very soon. If that the situation, I believe Ferrari and Lotus are not disadvantaged by the decision. It's just more teams are helped. RBR and Mercedes especially. So probably this could spice up the race :roll::

I believe all teams which has worked their cars so well in 2013 tyres, wouldn't have any disadvantage on 2012 tyres. Because, their philosophy actually been developed since earlier than 2012, except Mercedes and Mclaren with a new car and a new brand philosophy. But the philosophy of course is basically brought from 2012 situation and develop to 2013 change of rules..

I'm glad that Pirelli deliberately decide to revert 2012 spec start in Canada. That's good news, so that teams could compete just in the much better way. Racing. That's all I hope for. We hope to see the car is perform on at least 95% of the car performance in Sunday race. not 80-90% like what we saw in Bahrain and Spain especially. Mostly critics were about how slow the drivers race! errr.. sorry, manage the tyres..
I'll be brief:
No.

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Re: Gran Premio de España 2013

Post by mikhailv » 16 May 2013, 17:23

Ether wrote:Unpredictable on how they perform.. That is what I mean. Looking at statistics is always speaking the global and yes it's correct that it seems predictable.

Why do they need to change the tyres? Simple. Media critics have been harsh on Pirelli, if they do nothing, their image will be broken. Simple. The second reason is, majority team cannot perform well, the only team seems to understand well about the tyres are Ferrari, Lotus and FI. Others are still confused about the tyres consistency or how they perform.. Tell me if I'm wrong. This situation is different to last year, which is everybody struggling and everybody find well how 2012 tyres perform later after few races. But this year, 3 teams which is consistently know about tyres are only those teams, and no other teams seems to join the understanding very well. Even RB! Ironically they won 2 races!

By the way, Pirelli has been very strong and never care about whining teams anyway. They finally decide to revert 2012 specs because there were too much fuss about tyres, and that's not simply because of teams telling to media, but fans and media could simply quote any team radio talks like: "i can't drive any slower!" or "do we want to fight?" or "save tyres! Save tyres!" or "be carefully, save tyres, hold position!". Is it really what you would like to see?

I think of course it's better to see they drive and race. Not drive and manage the tyres.
But thats wrong. RBR won two races and had a further podium. Thats 3 out of 5 in the top 3 with 1 car. Williams' car and Saubers car are fundamentally flawed without tyres.

STR, FI, Lotus and Ferrari can use these tyres. Mclaren have a slow car, its not the tyres. Caterham are on the back of Williams, Marussia is close to caterham.

So thats STR/FI/Lotus/Ferrari/Caterham/Marussia who can work the tyres well. Williams/Sauber/Mclaren have a bad car regardless of tyres. RBR and Mercedes are the only team who are actually finnicky regarding the rubber.

Look at last years pecking order;

RBR
Mclaren
Ferrari
Lotus
Mercedes
Sauber
Force India
Williams
STR
Caterham
marussia
HRT

This years pecking order;

Ferrari/Lotus/RBR; Equal depending on track
Mercedes; Jumped Mclaren
Force India; Jumped Mclaren
Mclaren; poor drivers/poor car, fell back
STR; Jumped Sauber/Williams
Sauber; jumped by STR
Williams; still how they were last year
Caterham; MUCH closer to the tail of the mid
Marussia; similar to caterham

Go and actually look at the teams' performances;
Mclaren havn't fell back due to tyres; its car design and poor driving.
Force India have a solid car, they were better than Sauber at the end of last year. Its not a surprise they have capitalised on a failing mclaren.
STR have improved and jumped Sauber/Williams
Sauber are where they were end of last year
Williams the same as Sauber
Caterham much close
Marussia closer too

The pecking order is EXACTLY the same as last year apart from having 3 teams capable of fighting for the win instead of two. Zero unpredictability.
There aren't many sports where there are such fundamental changes to an essential ingredient part-way through a season," said Boullier on Thursday.

"Just imagine for a moment that, because a football team can't run as fast as its opponent, the dimensions of the pitch are changed at half time!

"That there are changes to come can be seen as somewhat frustrating, and I hope they are not too extreme. It's clear that Pirelli have found themselves in a difficult situation and under pressure from different quarters."

Boullier believes the situation is especially unfair because all outfits had access to Pirelli's 2013 tyre data at the same time - and the move could hurt those outfits that elected to focus their designs on ensuring the tyres were looked after.

"Last year, when we were designing our 2013 car, each team received information from Pirelli and everyone did the best job they could to develop a chassis which would make best use of the tyre characteristics," he said.

"We even ran with some experimental 2013 tyres at the end of last season, to assist us in confirming our development paths.

"As with every season, some teams do a better job than others with their designs, and some drivers are more adaptable than others to the changes of both car and tyre.

"It is frustrating when you've developed a car from a set of tyre specifications which are available to everyone – for tyres that are the same for everyone – to then be told that they are being changed mid-season."
I dont like Boullier, but he hits the nail on the head perfect. If suddenly RBR start dominating, I will switch off F1, cancel my subscription, and stop watching.

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