2013 Formula One Discussion

[MavF1]

Good read here from Marc Priestly, who worked at McLaren for a decade
http://www.pitpass.com/48765-Team-Disorders

Thanks phil again!
Very insightful piece.

Agree. Nice share, thanks phil.

Makes it all the more obvious how their bonding in recent time is actually just a way to compensate for the fact that Vettel is snatching away the world titles right in front of their noses. They try so hard to establish a kind of myth of the "ones that should have won", exchanging (false) compliments on the way and in doing so, trying to belittle Vettel. It's, for the most part, a pretty obvious sharade, isn't it? I don't suggest that there hasn't been a genuine regaining of respect since 2007, but if they both were in the same team again now, it wouldn't be much different than it was in 2007. Which leads to another reason why they "bond" so well these days: the fact that both of them know that they'll (probably) never drive for the same team again. Which is a real shame.

Or maybe they've raced together using the same equipment, and therefore respect what each is capable of? Turning this simple matter of respect between two drivers into some sort of conspiracy to belittle another driver is quite ridiculous.

If Vettel supporters think that's belittling their driver, then they're probably insecure about how good their driver is...

Neither do I propose a conspiracy theory here nor am I an "insecure Vettel supporter" as you're suggesting, which is a pretty hilarious statement considering my previous comments on him here. So I'd prefer for you not calling my comment ridiculous, since I could as easily accuse you of having an agenda.
I don't know if this snappy response has anything to do with what was going on here recently, but it seems you can't state your opinion on here to get a discussion going without fans of either camp jumping on you. Jeez.

[tderias]

Good read here from Marc Priestly, who worked at McLaren for a decade
http://www.pitpass.com/48765-Team-Disorders

Thanks phil again!
Very insightful piece.

Agree. Nice share, thanks phil.

Makes it all the more obvious how their bonding in recent time is actually just a way to compensate for the fact that Vettel is snatching away the world titles right in front of their noses. They try so hard to establish a kind of myth of the "ones that should have won", exchanging (false) compliments on the way and in doing so, trying to belittle Vettel. It's, for the most part, a pretty obvious sharade, isn't it? I don't suggest that there hasn't been a genuine regaining of respect since 2007, but if they both were in the same team again now, it wouldn't be much different than it was in 2007. Which leads to another reason why they "bond" so well these days: the fact that both of them know that they'll (probably) never drive for the same team again. Which is a real shame.

Or maybe they've raced together using the same equipment, and therefore respect what each is capable of? Turning this simple matter of respect between two drivers into some sort of conspiracy to belittle another driver is quite ridiculous.

If Vettel supporters think that's belittling their driver, then they're probably insecure about how good their driver is...

Neither do I propose a conspiracy theory here nor am I an "insecure Vettel supporter" as you're suggesting, which is a pretty hilarious statement considering my previous comments on him here. So I'd prefer for you not calling my comment ridiculous, since I could as easily accuse you of having an agenda.
I don't know if this snappy response has anything to do with what was going on here recently, but it seems you can't state your opinion on here to get a discussion going without fans of either camp jumping on you. Jeez.

Its not really jumping though is it? THIS IS having a discussion. You want to state your opinion, but when I state mine you suddenly become defensive and all? Plus, I don't see where I said that you were a Vettel fan in my comment...

Calm down, you're making it sound very personal

[F1EA]

Even in the "heat of the moment" Alonso never blamed Lewis. He always acknowledged LH was doing what he had to. So essentially, Alonso pointed the blame at Dennis for not being able to establish discipline.

[MavF1]

Its not really jumping though is it? THIS IS having a discussion. You want to state your opinion, but when I state mine you suddenly become defensive and all? Plus, I don't see where I said that you were a Vettel fan in my comment...

Calm down, you're making it sound very personal

I'm not taking it personally, I don't care enough about comments on the Internet, quite frankly
I just grow tired sometimes of the "I'm right - you're wrong" exchanges that don't involve any arguments whatsoever, that's all.

So, you don't find the Hamilton-Alonso lovefest curious? I'm exaggerating of course, but (and I said that before) since Vettel hit the scene and snatched away those three championships they've definitely become closer, you can't deny that. And I think it especially suits Alonso's political agenda quite well, tbh. He has always been the most political of the three top drivers, maybe because of the hard lessons he had to learn during his '06 fight with Schumacher. You know he loves his little games and what is better suited to - and I say it again - belittle Vettel's achievements than to cuddle with Hamilton and show the world that actually the best two drivers of F1 are loosing out to the kid with the better car. This maybe all sounds overly negative, but I just don't like that both of them play that card so bluntly, e.g. Hamilton's comments a while back comparing them both to Senna-Prost. Makes me
And I also said that before, I think it's great that they get along better now, but how they use it to show that they are actually the big guns and not Vettel is just a little too much and completely unnecessary.
Oh and btw, this is should not be a "conspiracy theory" as you called it. Neither do I want to suggest that upsetting Vettel is the primary motive for their growing respect, nor that it was its origin. I just think that it's an important factor nevertheless and I hope I'm not the only one seeing it that way.

[F1EA]

There is no "Alonso - Hamilton lovefest".

Alonso/Lewis simply get asked who they consider their biggest threat. They answer.

That's it.

[mikhailv]

Just read on Autosport that Eric bulls** believes its too early for team orders....



4 races in he was using them, on 2 races later than RBR and Mercedes. Difference is, team orders werent an order for one driver to pass another IE picking preference. It was to just keep formation, not take each other out and bring the cars home. Hypocritical ar****le as always.

[MavF1]

There is no "Alonso - Hamilton lovefest".

Alonso/Lewis simply get asked who they consider their biggest threat. They answer.

That's it.

I guess if you say so, it must be true.

[F1EA]

LOL

[mikhailv]

I must've had an adverse affect on people because it appears everyone is arguing with each others opinions.

On the Hamilton-Alonso thing. Its not a love-in. The enemy of my enemy, is my friend. Both know each other are the best drivers aside from themself; they know the other is their main threat. Vettel is stealing the limelight from them even though they know he is a lesser driver than them but in better machinery.

They are merely complimenting each other as a psychological game to unsettle Vettel. 'Oh Alonso is clearly the best driver out there and the one I want to beat'. 'Hamilton is the fastest driver there is and he is the one I want to finish ahead of'. Its simple. In losing together against a lesser driver, they strike up a public friendship and carry the notion by general consensus that they are the best two drivers in F1.

[MavF1]

I must've had an adverse affect on people because it appears everyone is arguing with each others opinions.

On the Hamilton-Alonso thing. Its not a love-in. The enemy of my enemy, is my friend. Both know each other are the best drivers aside from themself; they know the other is their main threat. Vettel is stealing the limelight from them even though they know he is a lesser driver than them but in better machinery.

They are merely complimenting each other as a psychological game to unsettle Vettel. 'Oh Alonso is clearly the best driver out there and the one I want to beat'. 'Hamilton is the fastest driver there is and he is the one I want to finish ahead of'. Its simple. In losing together against a lesser driver, they strike up a public friendship and carry the notion by general consensus that they are the best two drivers in F1.

Exactly. And if they would be in the same team again, there'd be fireworks again, on and off the track. That's actually the thing I miss most in F1 atm, a driver pairing of that caliber. It's great when all the top drivers are in competitive seats, but having two out of the big three in any combination in the same team would just be enormous. Unfortunatley, with Alonso and Hamilton that will most likely never happen again.

[mikhailv]

I think the problem is, We only had Senna and Prost as team mates for two years. Drivers like that want their own team without their racing equal. Teams don't want two drivers like that either because of the friction. So the best we can hope for is Mercedes vs Ferrari with a give or take equally as good car.

I don't believe in the current F1 we will ever see another team mate rivalry like Alonso/Hamilton because each of the top 5 drivers is established as number 1 in their own teams now. Lewis/merc, Vettel/RBR, Alonso/Ferrari, Kimi/Lotus, Button/McLaren.

Its exciting in the sense that 5 cars have the 5 best drivers but team mate rivalries always fall flat. In 2008 I can only think of Spa 2008 where the two Ferrari's went at it on track as if they weren't team mates. Oh, Turkey 2010 with Button/Hamilton then Canada 2011 too. But that lasted all but 3 laps in both races.

Until we get many drivers of the same calibre filling teams, we wont be treated to 2007 or 88/89 because right now, teams would rather have a superior>inferior driver line-up

[phil1993]

Thing with 88/89 is that we remember the two occasions they went tooth and nail, but in reality I think Prost and Senna rarely battled on track. The rivalry was the tension between them rather than the racing.

On the flip side, McLaren's 2007 intra-team rivalry cost them the title. Yes, Kimi did what he had to do, but for me it still feels more like a McLaren failure than a Ferrari success.

But overall I do agree. But I think we're in a great place at the moment and there will be more rivalries in the future.

[mikhailv]

I agree. Actual on track fights, there were very, very few because the cars are equal, drivers are equal. Alonso couldnt overtake Hamilton at Indy because there was nothing he could do in an equal car and Hamilton going just as fast. Reversed in Monaco. But if one driver was ahead, the other driver was battling with the ferrari's.

Thats why its good having them in different teams because the slight performance discrepancies and the characteristics of the different cars can play into certain tracks and driving styles.

[beefree88]

Good read here from Marc Priestly, who worked at McLaren for a decade
http://www.pitpass.com/48765-Team-Disorders

Thanks phil again!
Very insightful piece.

+1

[phil1993]

Rant O'Clock time from me...

It may just be me thinking this, but I don't like the way the 2013 calendar is spread out. It feels disjointed. You have 2 back to back races, a 3 week gap, 2 back to back races and then another 3 week gap. 3 weeks between Canada and GB, then back to back with Germany, then a 3 week gap to Hungary. After the summer break it's 2 week, back to back, 2 week and so on. That's not so bad. It just feels like you can't get a flow on early on in the season and then a load of races are crammed in later on in the year.