2013 Shell Belgian Grand Prix

[F1EA]

Didn't Vettel do 11th to 2nd last year?

Funny world sometimes.

The only way you can make the comparison is with straight numbers... ie P"Y" to P"X".

Look at the drive itself..... incomparable.

[phil1993]

How is it incomparable exactly?

Vettel also overtook a lot of rivals on track but couldn't catch up the winner as a result of a poor qualifying.

[Vorull]

Vettel had an awesome drive last year, but 2 strong rivals were taken out at the start.

[Vorull]

Didn't Vettel do 11th to 2nd last year?

Funny world sometimes.

He started 10th, because Mark got a grid penalty.

[phil1993]

Ah, yes, sorry, my error. I think he dropped to 12th after the first corner melee anyway

[mikhailv]

Didn't Vettel do 11th to 2nd last year?

Funny world sometimes.

Yeah but the only thing is. Hamilton, Grosjean, Alonso, Kobayashi, Maldanado and Perez were all taken out. so that's 6 cars. And regardless of quali trim, the car was much different in the race akin to the Ferrari as well. If Vettel had to contend with those drivers above; he wouldn't have won the WDC. So its not just Alonso being took out its half of Vettels closest rivals being taken out too.

[phil1993]

Yes, but my point is that Vettel gets little credit for a very good drive, whereas Alonso is frequently hailed as someone who is defying the laws of physics. They, along with Hamilton, are extraordinary drivers but sometimes there's peculiar disparity in how they're viewed.

[mikhailv]

Sometimes but the problem is we never know how much of vettels good drives is down to the car. theres always something. Is he so good he makes it look easy? Or is it that its so easy because the car is such a force? He wasn't impressive last year until after the break; and then the car became a dominant force to the point where he could start dead last have half the competative cars collide and just drive through unaffected, or have so much damage to his car that he could still be waved through on his merry way.

Thats the problem; it really is so easy for vettel every year. 2010 was a cake walk, the fact anyone could challenge was down to RBR's incompetency. 2011 was a cake walk. 2012 was a cake walk in the 2nd half of the season too.

[F1EA]

Didn't Vettel do 11th to 2nd last year?

Funny world sometimes.

Yeah but the only thing is. Hamilton, Grosjean, Alonso, Kobayashi, Maldanado and Perez were all taken out. so that's 6 cars. And regardless of quali trim, the car was much different in the race akin to the Ferrari as well. If Vettel had to contend with those drivers above; he wouldn't have won the WDC. So its not just Alonso being took out its half of Vettels closest rivals being taken out too.

That ^

I mean... I'm not saying Vettel can't do these kind of drives. Just that he hasn't.

Yes.. the result from that Belgian GP makes it look as if they were comparable drives... but not really.

In any case... you know it was a boring race when there's more talk about driver ratings than the race itself

[phil1993]

It isn't easy for Vettel. He works hard with the team to get everything perfect. He hasn't lucked into becoming world champion - only in 2010 can you really argue that his own problems (or errors shall we say) were masked by a fundamentally brilliant car. I think in 2012 he maybe struggled with the pressure for a bit or something - that whole first half of the season was a little sub-par, but since then he's not made many errors at all.

I'm not going to win this one with you guys, but I think everyone really praises Alonso and underestimates just how good Vettel really is.

More impressive is perhaps his psychology. Some great drivers struggle with being at the top for so long (see: Hakkinen) but Vettel is really quite good at this. Alonso throws mind games everywhere but isn't very good at them - yet hasn't realised this.

[mikhailv]

I probably underestimate how good he is because many times there has been pressure he has bottled it or made such silly mistakes. Not just once but many times. Thats the problem.

Hakkinen struggled but he never had such a dominant car. Thats the problem. the points Vettel has lost and mistakes he made he has STILL become WDC. He has been the best this year but then again the car this year is quickly becoming similar to the 2011 car.

Thats the thing.

[phil1993]

Yes, but now he's matured, making fewer errors and he already has three titles under his belt. Oh, and still only 26. So I think he's doing something right

He has bottled it in the past (as has everyone else) but he's pulled off some fantastic races that people ignore. I also don't buy the 'all he does is take pole and win' attitude, because that's what they're all trying to do.

[Ether]

I think this race was simply completed by the basic setup of the car. I think RB had the least downforce setup, and Mercedes has the most.. Compare to the Ferrari. Probably Ferrari is the same low downforce or probably lower than RB that's why he could get better advantage in the race. Both Merc I think was expecting a mixed race, or mixed rain and dry tracks, so their setup of higher downforce might materialize to a smart and good win. But the mothernature seems like prefer Vettel so much, it was completely dry, and the race was simply finally over just few seconds after the start.

RB is the best team, with best cars, I really really think RB is a very strong team. Consistently quick pit stop times, marvelous 2,5-2,7secs average, very few or maybe almost never wrong setup and/or strategy, and almost never failure on Vettel's car, very reliable! RB is much better team than legendary Ferrari and Mclaren right now. They completely nail it as the best team for quite some time...

Vettel drive I think was okay. Nothing so special about him actually, as there was almost no action at all. His start I think was okay too, he was quite close and fast through eau rouge and past Ham just before the straight was mostly because his lesser downforce setup. He made no mistake, yes he drove very well, but nothing special.

[F1EA]

I'm not going to win this one with you guys, but I think everyone really praises Alonso and underestimates just how good Vettel really is.

tough audience eh?

[Eric_Cartman]

I would also give Alonso a 10/10 for this race.

But I can also not understand why Vettel is underestimated by so many people. It's probably the frustration because he dominates F1 since 2010 and makes the championship boring. I would love to see Alonso and Vettel in the same team. Then we would all see how good he really is because I think it would be very close. Vettel has some advantages over Fernando: He is faster on a single lap (it's 12-0 in qualifying against Webber who was seen as a quali-specialist before Vettel changed to Red Bull), he is better in changeable conditions (apart from the 2012 performances where Ferrari was undoubtedly the fastest car in the rain, I haven't seen something special by Alonso in those conditions. Quite the opposite, Hamilton beat Alonso in the rain in his rookie year for example. Whereas Vettel has often shown how good he is in wet conditions) and Vettel is probably the hardest worker in F1. After his three titles he is still so ambitious and gives everything for F1. He tries to bring everything to perfection.

That's why I believe that Vettel could beat Alonso in the same car.