2013 Formula 1 Santander British Grand Prix

[F1EA]

Well it was confirmed early on that the revised bonding process had no part to play in the failures over the Silverstone weekend.

It may not have caused the failure, but it can change the failure mode.

[kals]

Yes and? It hasn't contributed to the cause of the failure.

[F1EA]

Yes and? It hasn't contributed to the cause of the failure.

...and:

The basic cause of failure is excess heat. I never said the cause of failure could have changed. The mechanism of failure, on the other hand...

As the tire surface degrades, additional heat is generated. This heat increases internal pressure until something fails. If you strengthen something then failure will come from somewhere else (ie weakest link).

Basically... the tires delammed before the structure was compromised. If you stop the delamming, you allow extra heat to build up pressure on the structure until it fails. Add to that possibly hitting a sharp kerb or whatever, that creates an even weaker point.

Think about a pressure cooker with a rubber gasket. The previous tires had a weaker gasket... so the gasket failed before the cooker. If you make the gasket stronger without changing the structure... the structure may fail.

Would you prefer to be around a pressure cooker failing at it's gasket or structure?

[Ether]

Basic problem is, Pirelli is in big trouble. The most logical way for them I think is reverting back to 2012 spec tyres. Even the dimension was a little bit different from 2013 spec tyres, it would be a better chance Pirelli and the teams and F1 for God sake, could solve this in easier and faster way.

It would be better if they try the 2012 spec tyres in the YDT or tyres test in silverstone mid July. That is a quick way to assess the situation. If Pirelli still need to investigate the cause, they might need more than 2 tyres test.. Pirelli will spend more money on this, and no one will help them with financing on that, even ironically F1 was actually asking Pirelli to make everything to the limit, and now they don't really seems to responsible about that. Pirelli is the scapegoat. Media will also make a big critics on Pirelli. Shame on Pirelli. Their future in 2014 will hugely be in doubt. I couldn't see them even on consideration to be next year tyres supplier.

[Ether]

Yes and? It hasn't contributed to the cause of the failure.

...and:

The basic cause of failure is excess heat. I never said the cause of failure could have changed. The mechanism of failure, on the other hand...

As the tire surface degrades, additional heat is generated. This heat increases internal pressure until something fails. If you strengthen something then failure will come from somewhere else (ie weakest link).

Basically... the tires delammed before the structure was compromised. If you stop the delamming, you allow extra heat to build up pressure on the structure until it fails. Add to that possibly hitting a sharp kerb or whatever, that creates an even weaker point.

Think about a pressure cooker with a rubber gasket. The previous tires had a weaker gasket... so the gasket failed before the cooker. If you make the gasket stronger without changing the structure... the structure may fail.

Would you prefer to be around a pressure cooker failing at it's gasket or structure?

The previous tires had a weaker gasket... so the gasket failed before the cooker [DELAMINATED]. If you make the gasket stronger without changing the structure... the structure may fail [EXPLODED]

I agree on this. So the basic problem is the tyres itself cannot support such heat. It was a problem of the heat, or the structure and rubber of Pirelli. Considering other tyres supplier didn't fail this many, so I guess it's a basic or fundamental flaw of Pirelli design in whole structure.

[kals]

But the change of the bonding did not affect or contribute to the cause of the delaminations. It may have changed the way the tyres disintegrated, but that's an unproven theory. A logical theory. But unproven.

Plus, when you consider the actual causes of the failures we witnessed on Sunday, they have probably more to do with the way the tyres exploded rather than just the bonding.

[donald29]

Vettel asks crowd to boo him so he can film it on his phone. 7:55 in.

[mikhailv]

But the change of the bonding did not affect or contribute to the cause of the delaminations. It may have changed the way the tyres disintegrated, but that's an unproven theory. A logical theory. But unproven.

Plus, when you consider the actual causes of the failures we witnessed on Sunday, they have probably more to do with the way the tyres exploded rather than just the bonding.

No but the steel bands stopped the tyres exploding. and kept the tyre to the wheel. Even the sidewall failure of Felipe's was saved because of the banding stopping an explosion;

[kals]

Oh for sure, there is no disputing that. And that is one of the reasons why Pirelli wanted to go back to the 2012 tyres earlier this season. But sadly a few teams objected and then there was Sunday at Silverstone.

[tderias]

Sky Sports posted pictures of the teams having their tyres on the wrong sides of the car:

[François]

I don't get why that isn't banned.

[Treacle]

According to teams the tire deg would be much worse if they used them on the intended sides. They haven't had problems because of this before (even though Lotus and Ferrari does this since Australia?), so I don't see how that contributes to the blow ups. And therefore why it should be banned.

[F1EA]

Sky Sports posted pictures of the teams having their tyres on the wrong sides of the car:

Pirelli also pointed at tire pressures and camber outside of their recommendations.........

They say their tires are completely safe when used as per their recommendations, but then they will strengthen the tires for Germany. The teams say the tires are not safe, and that safety should come before performance; and yet still use them outside of recommendations looking for performance.....

Somebody's lying.

[Treacle]

They say their tires are completely safe when used as per their recommendations, but then they will strengthen the tires for Germany. The teams say the tires are not safe, and that safety should come before performance; and yet still use them outside of recommendations looking for performance.....

Sure. I'd say they are both lying.
But you have to look at what has changed in the last race. I mean if using them outside of the recommendations led to the problems, then why now? They used them like this in the previous races and you didn't see 3 tries blow up in a matter of 8 laps.

[F1EA]

Yes. They're all lying, that's why the FIA should have stepped in from the moment this discussion started (in Malaysia i think it was); instead of wasting time and resources on that useless Merc trial.

Pirelli tested in Barcelona (an extreme front loading track), made modifications at some point to stop tire delamming/excessive wear whatever... but after Barcelona, Canada is front loading (hard breaking, medium speeds), Monaco is not extreme loading at all.... and Silverstone is extreme rear loading (high speed, high downforce) plus high degradation and temperatures....

I think the blow outs came from the modifications after Barcelona.