Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Who will win the Monaco Grand Prix?

Sebastian Vettel
2
7%
Kimi Raikkonen
6
21%
Fernando Alonso
5
18%
Lewis Hamilton
6
21%
Felipe Massa
0
No votes
Mark Webber
0
No votes
Romain Grosjean
0
No votes
Paul di Resta
0
No votes
Nico Rosberg
7
25%
Jenson Button
1
4%
Sergio Perez
1
4%
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 28

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sejtur
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Re: Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Post by sejtur » 27 May 2013, 15:56

dacer wrote:But look Kimi, he fight with Perez, and he loose 9 points. Alonso didn't fight with Perez, Sutil and Button, and get 6 points. They are fighting for championship, not for a single race.
So you suggest that Kimi should just have gone out of the way for Perez? And if he defends he gets crashed out for defending his position.

Yeah, what Kimi did was really bad, he should have thought of the championship and let Perez past. (sarcasm)

You're saying that it's basically: let him passed or get whacked. This is unreasonable in my eyes. Just because Perez is a hothead you shouldn't let him past just to be safe. IMO, it should be possible that a driver can fight with someone without assaulting someone like Perez did. Perez was so far back, if you have seen the whole onboard.
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Re: Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Post by F1EA » 27 May 2013, 16:38

What Kimi did was great. Alonso should have done it, but i guess he was being much more cautious due to already losing points in early races.

The move Perez tried all race were kamikaze moves. Basically, cut the chicane or crash. Alonso went out of the track, hoping the stewards would have allowed him to. With the precedent set, Kimi had no other choice. Perez got what he dived in for. I think its great he broke the car and had to retire. I was pretty annoyed seeing him continue the race and Kimi losing all he drove for. Perez complained of not being left space, well he didnt leave track space for Kimi or Alonso either... the difference being the barrier ;)

When Perez starts racing for championships, he will learn the untold rules. Or when he gets a couple more of these crash outs. He more or less could get away with this in Sauber; but in Mclaren this is unforgivable and the media will grill him.

Sutil... now that was a beauty.
Last edited by F1EA on 27 May 2013, 16:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Post by mikhailv » 27 May 2013, 16:39

sejtur wrote:
dacer wrote:But look Kimi, he fight with Perez, and he loose 9 points. Alonso didn't fight with Perez, Sutil and Button, and get 6 points. They are fighting for championship, not for a single race.
So you suggest that Kimi should just have gone out of the way for Perez? And if he defends he gets crashed out for defending his position.

Yeah, what Kimi did was really bad, he should have thought of the championship and let Perez past. (sarcasm)

You're saying that it's basically: let him passed or get whacked. This is unreasonable in my eyes. Just because Perez is a hothead you shouldn't let him past just to be safe. IMO, it should be possible that a driver can fight with someone without assaulting someone like Perez did. Perez was so far back, if you have seen the whole onboard.
It is, but thats the precedence the FIA have set. You can barge up the inside, force a car to go off track and win the position. I mean lets be honest, its a racing incident, in monaco. Stupid by Perez, but its a racing incident. Problem is it cost Kimi 8 points which is a shame.

But the fact is, if that was barriers, he wouldn't even try it there. because its not, he can barge freely and say 'well I divebombed that corner its an overtake', when the overtake only happens because you crowd a car off track.

In hindsight, year, Kimi should've just not bothered fighting, because in defending all he did was lose 8 points and get hit. Alonso said after the race he didnt bother racing cars who have nothing to lose when he has a championship to fight. It doesnt help in the slightest, and the sentiment isn't right, but it makes sense. lose 2 points over 8 points and an accident.

This is why Monaco shouldnt be on the calendar. Sunday is the most disapointing day of all.

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Re: Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Post by mikhailv » 27 May 2013, 16:45

tderias wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
majidasadi wrote:Yesterday i was surprised by Alonso's drive,it was very strange that drivers like Sutil were passing him easily...In San Marino 2005 Schumi was chasing him in the final 12 laps and Alonso's drive that day was amazing,he defended brilliantly,yesterday it was one the worst races of his career.
To be honest, I think he just didn't want to risk anything. I mean, he didn't try attacking Raikkonen or overtaking because he didn't want to collide, but in not making a move on raikkonen he left himself open to attack from behind, which is exactly what happened.

Its funny, but if you think, in giving the place back to Perez, it saved him from retiring; Perez hit raikkonen and gave him a puncture, it could've been a lot worse. He got balked with Sutil/Perez and Button took advantage. Alonso just looked like he didn't want to fight or defend. Sutils move was a beauty! Might seem lacklustre but the whole race was weird.

We had one lapped car come the first safety car right? The whole race was so so slow. Vettel had 2 seconds in his pocket yet didn't use it at all.

I dare say, Mercedes went purposely slow to try show they 'gained nothing' from the test, RBR wanted merc to win so slowed down more to try and say 'they gained a second/tyres are c**p'.
That's the thing though. Being so cautious is not Alonso's style. It's too early to be thinking about the points so tentatively imo.
It is his style though. He did it in Canada 2012; if all he is going to do is risk his car and risk the points finish, he will accept a lesser position. To win the war you must concede a battle. #wayofthesamuraibollocks

But yeah, he has done it before. He's settled for positions knowing he has no chance of advancing.

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Re: Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Post by Ferrari92 » 27 May 2013, 17:51

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Re: Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Post by naiego » 27 May 2013, 22:58

mikhailv wrote:
Coopz wrote:
mikhailv wrote:Nice little piece with various people in the paddock talking about Monaco. Prost saying 'this was MY race'. Cant argue with that. He owned Monaco.
And Sennas race. :O
Nah, it wasn't Senna's race. Senna won 3 times because Mansell twice, Schumacher and Prost retired from the lead. He wasn't that good at monaco, there were better drivers and he got more lucky than Alonso does with car retirements to win. Senna's overrated.
I disagree my friend. We could rewrite Formula 1 history if we used hypothesis like the one you did. Prost took 2 victories because Senna crashed in '88 and Jackie Stewart "red-flagged" the '84 race keeping Senna out of his, potentially, first win.
The facts are what they are, besides Senna's pole position in '88, 1,5 seconds faster than Prost has something to tell.

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Re: Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Post by Joey Zyla » 28 May 2013, 06:00

sejtur wrote:
dacer wrote:But look Kimi, he fight with Perez, and he loose 9 points. Alonso didn't fight with Perez, Sutil and Button, and get 6 points. They are fighting for championship, not for a single race.
So you suggest that Kimi should just have gone out of the way for Perez? And if he defends he gets crashed out for defending his position.

Yeah, what Kimi did was really bad, he should have thought of the championship and let Perez past. (sarcasm)

You're saying that it's basically: let him passed or get whacked. This is unreasonable in my eyes. Just because Perez is a hothead you shouldn't let him past just to be safe. IMO, it should be possible that a driver can fight with someone without assaulting someone like Perez did. Perez was so far back, if you have seen the whole onboard.
The thing that makes me laugh is that what Kimi did to Perez at Monaco is hardly different than what Perez did to Kimi at China, although of course the Kimi fanboys (and Kimi himself) align the blame to Perez on both occasions.

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Re: Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Post by dacer » 28 May 2013, 08:13

sejtur wrote:
dacer wrote:But look Kimi, he fight with Perez, and he loose 9 points. Alonso didn't fight with Perez, Sutil and Button, and get 6 points. They are fighting for championship, not for a single race.
So you suggest that Kimi should just have gone out of the way for Perez? And if he defends he gets crashed out for defending his position.

Yeah, what Kimi did was really bad, he should have thought of the championship and let Perez past. (sarcasm)

You're saying that it's basically: let him passed or get whacked. This is unreasonable in my eyes. Just because Perez is a hothead you shouldn't let him past just to be safe. IMO, it should be possible that a driver can fight with someone without assaulting someone like Perez did. Perez was so far back, if you have seen the whole onboard.
More easy to understand. Think to win championship, forget to "win" a race where you can only finish 5th as better.

Easy?

How many points scored Alonso?. How many Kimi?. For them to Win, is to get more points than any other 25.

Sl2

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Re: Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Post by mikhailv » 28 May 2013, 09:16

naiego wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
Coopz wrote:
mikhailv wrote:Nice little piece with various people in the paddock talking about Monaco. Prost saying 'this was MY race'. Cant argue with that. He owned Monaco.
And Sennas race. :O
Nah, it wasn't Senna's race. Senna won 3 times because Mansell twice, Schumacher and Prost retired from the lead. He wasn't that good at monaco, there were better drivers and he got more lucky than Alonso does with car retirements to win. Senna's overrated.
I disagree my friend. We could rewrite Formula 1 history if we used hypothesis like the one you did. Prost took 2 victories because Senna crashed in '88 and Jackie Stewart "red-flagged" the '84 race keeping Senna out of his, potentially, first win.
The facts are what they are, besides Senna's pole position in '88, 1,5 seconds faster than Prost has something to tell.
And Senna is still over rated because he died. He didn't own Monaco facts show 3 victories through 5 cars failing ahead of him., prost was a better driver around the track. No point being 1.5 seconds faster in qualifying.

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Re: Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Post by mikhailv » 28 May 2013, 09:18

Joey Zyla wrote:
sejtur wrote:
dacer wrote:But look Kimi, he fight with Perez, and he loose 9 points. Alonso didn't fight with Perez, Sutil and Button, and get 6 points. They are fighting for championship, not for a single race.
So you suggest that Kimi should just have gone out of the way for Perez? And if he defends he gets crashed out for defending his position.

Yeah, what Kimi did was really bad, he should have thought of the championship and let Perez past. (sarcasm)

You're saying that it's basically: let him passed or get whacked. This is unreasonable in my eyes. Just because Perez is a hothead you shouldn't let him past just to be safe. IMO, it should be possible that a driver can fight with someone without assaulting someone like Perez did. Perez was so far back, if you have seen the whole onboard.
The thing that makes me laugh is that what Kimi did to Perez at Monaco is hardly different than what Perez did to Kimi at China, although of course the Kimi fanboys (and Kimi himself) align the blame to Perez on both occasions.
STOP IT. STOP TELLING KIMI FANS THAT HE WAS HALF AT FAULT.



Though in seriousness, Kimi was a little big further ahead than Perez was, but its the same incident inwhich Kimi accused Perez of closing the door. He does it back and its still Perez' fault.

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Re: Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Post by Ferrari92 » 28 May 2013, 09:52

Father and son - Keke & Nico Rosberg
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Re: Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Post by Ferrari92 » 28 May 2013, 10:03

Massa's crash was caused by suspension failure.

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Re: Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Post by fettemieze » 28 May 2013, 11:19

mikhailv wrote:
STOP IT. STOP TELLING KIMI FANS THAT HE WAS HALF AT FAULT.



Though in seriousness, Kimi was a little big further ahead than Perez was, but its the same incident inwhich Kimi accused Perez of closing the door. He does it back and its still Perez' fault.
Kimi had to turn left to make the corner in Monaco (I know he turned in earlier than usual), but Perez just cuts him (right hander) in China. I don't think Perez would've made that corner in Monaco without pushing Kimi to cut the chicane (identical to Alonso). "Crash or cut" - that's not a fair overtake move. In China Perez could've avoided contact by staying on the inside. Not the same accident for me. I don't say it was 100% Perez' fault last weekend, but he was clearly too aggressive at this point.

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Re: Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Post by mikhailv » 28 May 2013, 12:18

So? He closed the door late. Just like Perez did. If Kimi didnt like China he shouldn't have done it to Perez in Monaco.

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Re: Grand Prix de Monaco 2013

Post by naiego » 28 May 2013, 15:45

mikhailv wrote: And Senna is still over rated because he died. He didn't own Monaco facts show 3 victories through 5 cars failing ahead of him., prost was a better driver around the track. No point being 1.5 seconds faster in qualifying.
I disagree on that as well. In my opinion his value as a driver has nothing to do with his premature death. He was fast, capable of producing absolute laps in whatever single-seater he drove, he had fighting spirit, of course as all the great drivers he had an extremely high ego and from the spectator's point of view, that's what we are, all of us who pay our good money to watch races live ot from TV, he was spectacular and a pleasure to watch.
Anyway, that's a conversation for another thread that's why I would like to thank the administrators for tolerating posts that are off-topic.

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