UBS Chinese Grand Prix

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Who will win the Chinese Grand Prix?

Poll ended at 09 Apr 2013, 09:31

Sebastian Vettel
8
22%
Kimi Raikkonen
7
19%
Mark Webber
2
5%
Lewis Hamilton
7
19%
Felipe Massa
3
8%
Fernando Alonso
6
16%
Nico Rosberg
0
No votes
Romain Grosjean
0
No votes
Jenson Button
4
11%
Sergio Perez
0
No votes
Nico Hulkenberg
0
No votes
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 37

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Treacle
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by Treacle » 14 Apr 2013, 10:35

Webber said he misinterpreted Vergne's action, he believed JEV will let him go.
"Right now I'm having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before."

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phil1993
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by phil1993 » 14 Apr 2013, 10:40

Williams say P13 and 14 was the maximum they could have achieved. I really hope they can improve but I can't see it. They've slipped back hugely; how much will they regret missing big points in 2012 I wonder?

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mikhailv
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by mikhailv » 14 Apr 2013, 10:40

Chill out over what? There is nothing to chill out over. Saying rules are rules and there should be penalties? Criticism for inconsistency in delivering penalties, times we've asked for penalties or more harsh penalties, reasons not to give penalties and now we shouldn't give them because of a glitch? Shouldn't give penalties for racing incidents caused by limited vision through wing mirrors then or because a driver doesn't expect another one to brake earlier then!

Its all 'Tough s***' in my eyes, FIA don't operate DRS; they don't open the flap for the driver, the driver pushes a button, they did wrong; penalty, simples. like overtaking a car off track (illegal) and not being able to give the position back due to it retiring. Seems harsh but shouldn't have been done in the first place Otherwise, its just ridiculous having rules. Already teams have gotten away with things later to be declared illegal or unpunished while another driver gets punished for it. DRS under yellows is a serious offence. Marshall's are ontrack. What if you lose control, slam into the crashed and kill a marshal? Not the glitchs fault a driver operated mechanism was used. Penalties for all; 3 place grid penalty. That way, results stand.

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Coopz
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by Coopz » 14 Apr 2013, 10:42

We don't know the full details. There could be an explanation that we don't know about. Lets not jump to conclusions when we don't have the data the FIA do.

I imagine they'll all get a warning if they have done wrong.
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majidasadi
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by majidasadi » 14 Apr 2013, 10:43

this was Alonso's 31st victory,he matched Nigel Mansell today.
A craven can be as brave as any man, when there is nothing to fear. And we all do our duty, when there is no cost to it. How easy it seems then, to walk the path of honor.

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phil1993
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by phil1993 » 14 Apr 2013, 10:43

The problem is, it isn't that simple.

If it was, it would be an investigation during the race.

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mikhailv
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by mikhailv » 14 Apr 2013, 10:51

phil1993 wrote:The problem is, it isn't that simple.

If it was, it would be an investigation during the race.
Which is why they look at telemetry and pit-driver radio. If they lifted off, id say 'ok', but then why would you lift off and operate DRS? Fact is; DRS used, most likely have gone faster; penalty. Instead of over complicating things by going for grey areas, its black and white; DRS under yellows is illegal. Driver has to push the button to operate it. Penalty.

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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by phil1993 » 14 Apr 2013, 10:53

I know, but you can't see what I'm saying. DRS is operated manually by drivers, but operated by the FIA. So the FIA may have disabled DRS but the problem with the telemetry means it would still have been available. I don't know the details, but I'm sure the problems are linked.

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mikhailv
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by mikhailv » 14 Apr 2013, 10:55

phil1993 wrote:I know, but you can't see what I'm saying. DRS is operated manually by drivers, but operated by the FIA. So the FIA may have disabled DRS but the problem with the telemetry means it would still have been available. I don't know the details, but I'm sure the problems are linked.
I see exactly what your saying Phil, but end of the day, the driver presses the button not the FIA. Whether its available or not, the driver operates the mechanism on the car. its upto the driver to use it just like KERS; its available, but you don't have to use it straight away, you don't have to use it on a lap. Its driver operated, mistake or not; its an illegal act and should be punished otherwise rules may aswell just have a small print saying 'unless we think different'.

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François
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by François » 14 Apr 2013, 10:57

Correct me if I'm wrong but since the yellow flag zone was at the end of the straight, wasn't the DRS activation point still in the green zone? It may well be that some drivers simply had no way of knowing DRS was disallowed until they approached the corner.
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by Joey Zyla » 14 Apr 2013, 10:58

mikhailv wrote:
phil1993 wrote:The problem is, it isn't that simple.

If it was, it would be an investigation during the race.
Which is why they look at telemetry and pit-driver radio. If they lifted off, id say 'ok', but then why would you lift off and operate DRS? Fact is; DRS used, most likely have gone faster; penalty. Instead of over complicating things by going for grey areas, its black and white; DRS under yellows is illegal. Driver has to push the button to operate it. Penalty.
I agree with you occasionally. This is one of those occasions.

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phil1993
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by phil1993 » 14 Apr 2013, 10:59

Strong rumours picking up that Mark Webber has signed a 5 year deal with Porsche's LMP1 project. Tweeted by Kate Walker (F1 journalist) and MotoGP/Le Mans commentator Toby Moody.

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mikhailv
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by mikhailv » 14 Apr 2013, 11:01

François wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but since the yellow flag zone was at the end of the straight, wasn't the DRS activation point still in the green zone? It may well be that some drivers simply had no way of knowing DRS was disallowed until they approached the corner.
I believe so, but then its still tough. Teams shouldve been on the radio saying 'yellows sector 3'. If they didnt and the driver went blind in using DRS, its still a penalty. They still broke a rule regardless of knowing. Its completely tough luck; its broke, intended or not. Sauber didnt intend to get 2mm wrong on the rear wing but they were disqualified. no performance advantage was gained in the slightest, but they broke a rule mistakenly and were punished.

A rule is broken, it needs punishment. Continually the stewards over-penalise certain drivers then just slaps wrists and say dont do it again for the rest. Why have rules if you just wash infringmenets away? If Alonso used DRS illegally, he should get a penalty whether he loses the win or not. Rules are rules. nobody goes out to break rules on purpose, but thats life.

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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by François » 14 Apr 2013, 11:12

mikhailv wrote:
François wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but since the yellow flag zone was at the end of the straight, wasn't the DRS activation point still in the green zone? It may well be that some drivers simply had no way of knowing DRS was disallowed until they approached the corner.
I believe so, but then its still tough. Teams shouldve been on the radio saying 'yellows sector 3'. If they didnt and the driver went blind in using DRS, its still a penalty. They still broke a rule regardless of knowing. Its completely tough luck; its broke, intended or not. Sauber didnt intend to get 2mm wrong on the rear wing but they were disqualified. no performance advantage was gained in the slightest, but they broke a rule mistakenly and were punished.

A rule is broken, it needs punishment. Continually the stewards over-penalise certain drivers then just slaps wrists and say dont do it again for the rest. Why have rules if you just wash infringmenets away? If Alonso used DRS illegally, he should get a penalty whether he loses the win or not. Rules are rules. nobody goes out to break rules on purpose, but thats life.
I see your point, but if things were so black and white, we'd already have the stewards' decision by now. Rules are rules but you cannot take those decisions likely when the half the field are involved. Besides, the situation is a byproduct of the shortcomings of an FIA system, so you have to take that into account too.

Let's hope whatever decision they end up making is fair to everyone and doesn't overturn the race results too badly.
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by donald29 » 14 Apr 2013, 11:13

phil1993 wrote:Strong rumours picking up that Mark Webber has signed a 5 year deal with Porsche's LMP1 project. Tweeted by Kate Walker (F1 journalist) and MotoGP/Le Mans commentator Toby Moody.
Interesting. Am waiting to hear more.

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