Gran Premio de España Santander 2012

[phil1993]

A driver who has nothing to prove should not be in the sport. If that's the case, he should go. He's wasting a space for another driver. If he wasn't Michael Schumacher, would he still be there? That's the question we have to ask. If Schumacher was some GP2 graduate, what would we think of his 2010-12 performances? If he wants racing, he should go to DTM. Er, well, I say racing

[donald29]

We all know how good Alonso is, does he therefore have nothing to prove and should leave? Raikkonen won a championship and left, now he's back because he missed the racing. He has nothing to prove, was it wrong of him to come back then? Of course not, that would be silly.

Schumacher has every right to be there. As long as he wants to, a team is willing to give him a drive and he is capable of delivering results then there is no problem. One bad race on his part this season and this is all being blown out of proportion.

He's not some GP2 graduate though. 2010 was pretty poor and had some low moments, but if Schumacher was that bad in 2011-12 it really does not reflect particularly well on Rosberg.

[tderias]

Well the point is that both Alonso and Kimi are performing well, even though they have nothing more to prove. Thats the difference and thats why they shouldn't be leaving, unlike Michael. And yes, the problems in the first few races might be down the team and not his driving, but we're talking about two seasons in which he was beaten by his teammate, and it looks like there's going to be a third.

It was exciting for F1 when Michael announced his return with Ross Brawn, but I think he underestimated how tough it was going to be for him. And I bet if you ask him now if he's having fun in F1, I'm almost sure the answer won't be a 'yes'.

[donald29]

Well Schumacher is not performing as badly as people make out. He doesn't seem to like the racing with this year's Pirelli tyres though, and he's not the only one. He complained after Bahrain when he'd actually driven quite a good race. If there's more of this ahead I doubt he'd want to do another season.

Am watching the F1 show and have seen the full Hamilton / Schumacher incident now. Phil's video does not show Hamilton in front of Schumacher before. I think Schumacher only got a reprimand because of the way Hamilton was going slowly in front of him before, but Schumacher should not have done that.

[phil1993]

It's difficult to argue with you because of you being a fan. I feel that he's a great driver who is tarnishing his reputation, repeating silly errors and moaning too much. His return has been underwhelming, not a failure, but I'd rather see someone else in the car for 2013 unless he improves soon.

[donald29]

Argue all you like. I enjoy debating these things with you, even if I do not agree with every point you make. I respect your opinion, you are not a troll. And I don't think I am being unreasonable, we are having a good debate.

I wouldn't say he's tarnishing his reputation, perhaps in the eyes of those who want it to be tarnished. But then you could say it's not being tarnished in the eyes of those who don't want it to be tarnished. I think this comeback should to be treated separately to his 'first career'.

Like I've said before, there have been lots of posts along the lines of 'I never liked Schumacher, but I respect him for being there now and want to see him get another podium.' One good race and all this talk will go away (for a bit ).

[mikhailv]

It's difficult to argue with you because of you being a fan. I feel that he's a great driver who is tarnishing his reputation, repeating silly errors and moaning too much. His return has been underwhelming, not a failure, but I'd rather see someone else in the car for 2013 unless he improves soon.

Lets be honest, a world champion who twice tries to take out his WDC rival, succeeds once and fails a second time, is tarnished. A WDC who purposely parks his car in monaco to stop his rival qualifying, is tarnished. The fact that his super fans went from him being baby jesus' first born in 2004, to making the excuse that he was 'past it' in 2005 and 2006, is just self retardation on their part too because in 4 months, you dont go from dominating a world championship in a far superior car, to being rubbish in a car that was no good (it was called, becoming human and refusing to accept he won because he had a dominant car, a poor second driver on a strict leash and rivals which were either penalised or michellin penalised; think of Williams, and think of the Michellin tyre size debacle. Rather similar to the mass damper if I remember).

And yes, I do hate ferrari as an F1 team. But aside from that, Schumacher is a joke since 2005, because his super fans are blind. Nico rosberg, who hardly sets the track alight and is piss poor, is beating him constantly. He drove into the back of a williams (not unusual territory for him) and blames the williams driver for him being too thick to realise he was never going to overtake in the first place. He has made countless mistakes and accidents which is never his fault.

Schumi's records to me, arent worth the paper they are written on. 2000, 2003, 1995 are the only championships he is worthy of. He should've been stripped of 1994 for blatant cheating. But then, this sport condones cheating; Senna should've been kicked out of F1, but no, because he died he is classed as a legend, and all the disgraceful things he did on track dont matter because you cant say a bad word about a dead man it appears. Well, senna was a disgraceful driver at times. Both mclaren drivers should've been kicked out of 2007, Alonso should've lost the Singapore win. Renault didnt get a penalty for having Mclaren files either. Redbull clearly had a flexible wing, but they werent DSQ, Brawn had an illegal diffuser, they werent DSQ.

The sport condones cheating, its plain and simple. No matter how you try to sugar coat it, it condones cheating, and AFTERWARDS, makes rules to stop it happening again. Canada 2010, lewis didnt get his pole removed, they said it was wrong, but they didnt do anything, they just said 'dont do it again'. I cant believe mclaren failed lewis and was so thick as to do it in Spain. Theyre really bringing him down. But yeah, a slap on the wrist, and then dont do it again is the philosophy in F1 of the past 20 years.

[donald29]

Well at least you're consistent in your condemnation of Senna as well. And seemingly everyone else.

[phil1993]

I don't go as far as you - who does? - but I agree that statistics flatter Schumacher. He's easily one of the greatest that ever lived, but I doubt the greatest. The only rival he ever faced was Mika Hakkinen. Schumacher should be remembered most for his efforts in building such a brilliant team, because for 2001, 2002 and 2004 he had no rivals. Now, there's 6 champions in the field. The quality of competition is far, far greater.

[reppo]

Interesting that just few months ago Schumacher said he would not have come back without testing ban:
http://www.auto123.com/en/news/f1-micha ... tid=141495

F1: Michael Schumacher says test ban led to Grand Prix comeback

By Auto123.com,
Wednesday, March 14, 2012


From GMM

Seven-time World Champion Michael Schumacher has revealed he would not have returned to formula one if not for the sport's strict testing ban.

Two years after his record seventh title, the famous German retired in 2006, but then came back with the new Mercedes GP venture in 2010 and is now deciding whether or not to extend his contract for 2013.

But as a multi-millionaire and 43-year-old father of two, he was asked by the German newspaper Bild-Zeitung why he was not content to simply "enjoy your family" in the wake of his unprecedented success.

"Because racing is my passion," he insisted, "and anyway it doesn't mean I have to stop enjoying my life with my family.

"When I came back again, one of the reasons (for the decision) was that formula one is much less time-consuming as it was in my 'first career'.

"Then, we had testing after each race, now - during the season - there is not. I have plenty of time for my family," said Schumacher.

"Otherwise, clearly, there would have been no comeback," he admitted.

So, Schumacher is now deciding whether or not to stay in 2013 and beyond.

Would he consider returning to Ferrari, to once again take on the challenge of pulling the famous Italian squad out of a crisis?

"Let's just say this," the German answered. "The probability that I will end my career with a team other than Mercedes is so exceedingly low that I don't need to even think about it."

Yet, I think the testing ban has been hurting him the most. It is no longer the same game it was 2006. That makes me wonder what is his real ambitions in F1. Did he really think he just come back and be in winning form in no time at all. But this year is so weird he might find himself on podium when he least expects it

[mikhailv]

Well at least you're consistent in your condemnation of Senna as well. And seemingly everyone else.

Senna was an amazing talent, dont get me wrong and my god he put some awsome performances. But, its unfair that schumacher gets slated for taking hill out, when he did the same thing to Prost, and vice versa. its seen as an awsome rivalry, yet Schumacher is slated for it and thats wrong. Its only fair to criticise Senna and Prost for nearly killing each other, which is much worse than what Schumacher did at low speed, but they are lauded for it which is disgraceful and unfair on Michael.

I dont believe in a 'best ever driver' in F1. I believe in the best of an era. I mean, the 2000-2012, clearly its Kimi and Alonso. 90's, it was Schumacher and Hakkinen. 80's it was Senna, prost, mansell, Gilles, piquet, Arnoux and jabouille. 70's I always rated Lauda, stewart, Fittipaldi,Hunt, peterson, siffert,. 60's was clearly Brabham, Hill, Clark.

Records nowdays arent worth half of what these guys did.

[donald29]

Yeah it is extremely difficult to compare eras. I disagree though when people say it's easier for F1 drivers today than it was 50 or 60 years ago and the cars are easier to drive. Different? Yes, very. But that does not make it easier. Perhaps it's hard to imagine today's drivers in a 1950s car, but then it's equally difficult to imagine the drivers of the 1950s in one of today's cars.

[mikhailv]

Yeah it is extremely difficult to compare eras. I disagree though when people say it's easier for F1 drivers today than it was 50 or 60 years ago and the cars are easier to drive. Different? Yes, very. But that does not make it easier. Perhaps it's hard to imagine today's drivers in a 1950s car, but then it's equally difficult to imagine the drivers of the 1950s in one of today's cars.

I think cars were much harder to drive than today; manual gearboxes for example. I mean, in a technology driven sport, todays crop were mostly born and brought up with modern technology. It would be much harder for graham hill to jump into the RB8, than Vettel to jump into P578 BRM Hill drove I reckon.

[iceman1]

Somehow the video posted by Phil didn't show the full incident. Hamilton blocked Schumacher first

[phil1993]

Not great from Lewis, but hardly a block. Looked more like he was on a long fuel run and Michael caught him at a bad place.