2011 Korean Grand Prix
Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix
if hamilton had pitted for wing change, he wouldnt have even come second, surely mclaren thought it through.
excuses are there to be given though, at the end they did not win
excuses are there to be given though, at the end they did not win
Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix
uppps, I hope was not Alonso the cause. He is married with Raquel del Rosarioiceman1 wrote:It seems that Hamilton was upset because he broke up with Nicole
Surely, change front wing required more time than what he loose.sdutt wrote:if hamilton had pitted for wing change, he wouldnt have even come second, surely mclaren thought it through.
excuses are there to be given though, at the end they did not win
If you start all races in pole, you only can loose points on races. It's Vettel example, he used to start at top positions, but it's not Hamilton exampleEric_Cartman wrote: so that means that Ayrton Senna was the worst driver in F1 history because he lost the most positions in the race considering his grid position (-32) ?
Senna 1988 (9,6,4,3,2,1):
Grid (1-1-1-1-1-1-2-3-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1) = 133
Race (x-1-x-2-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-10-6-4-1-2) = 94
-39
Senna 1990 (9,6,4,3,2,1):
Grid (5-1-1-1-1-3-3-2-1-4-1-1-3-1-1-1) = 113
Race (1-3-x-1-1-20-3-3-1-2-1-1-2-x-x-x) =78
-35
Senna 1991 (10,6,4,3,2,1):
Grid (1-1-1-1-3-3-3-2-2-1-1-1-3-3-2-1) = 118
Race (1-1-1-1-x-3-3-4-7-1-1-2-2-5-2-(1 half points)) = 96
-22 (last race , Australia, was half points, so really -17)
Senna, as Vettel, this year used to start at top position, so it's easy to loose points
Hamilton this year, are not really good in grid, so you can not considerer he loose point because he is on top position on grid
3-4-3-9-5-3-10-2-2-2-2-4-3-1
Button,
2-6-5-2-7-6-5-7-3-13-3-3-2-3
Alonso
5-5-4-4-2-4-3-4-5-8-4-5-5-6
Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix
Thats only seven races, the first seven was 3-4-3-9-5-3-10 . Not very awesomephil1993 wrote:2-2-2-2-4-3-1
Yes, a truly woeful qualifying record.
The last seven races results: 1-4-x-4-5-5-2. Not very awesome results, only two podiums when he start as top 3 in all except one of this.
Button:
last seven qualis 7-3-13-3-3-2-3 (last four races was awesome, but as you choose seven races I will do the same)
last seven races x-1-3-2-2-1-4. Except one DNF, and a fourth, all other on podium. And if we look only last four races, 2(from 3) - 2(3) - 1(2) - 4(3), he loose one position in one race, and win one position in the other three
It's the same Hamilton vs Button, of course!!
EDITED
Another comparation:
Button grid vs Hamilton
4-4-2]-6-5-2-7-6-5-7-3-13-3-3-2-3
2-2-3-4-3-9-5-3-10-2-2-2-2-4-3-1
Hamilton get better grid position 12 times, button 4 times
Race results Button vs Hamilton (ignoring retired)
6-2-4-6-3-3-1-6-x-x-1-3-2-2-1-4
2-8-1-4-2-6-x-4-4-1-4-x-4-5-5-2
Hamilton get better race results 6 times, button 6 times too (4 retirement no count, 2 each)
Last edited by dacer on 19 Oct 2011, 12:06, edited 2 times in total.
Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix
I think there's no doubt that Hamilton is in a rut at the moment and he's having a pretty bad season, but even so, trying to justify a driver's bad performances by losing positions qualifying > race isn't a great analysis. If you want to criticise him, point more towards his poor race pace (especially in Japan) and the small incidents he keeps getting into. McLaren also aren't helped by the fact that the Ferrari is a lot closer in race trim than quali trim, meaning that McLaren in theory should be guaranteed Row 2, but in the race Ferrari can be on the podium (well, Alonso )
Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix
Not, I'm criticise that someone said, Hamilton was faster one in qualy, so he didn't win the race cause a front wing fault (that they didn't replace when they can do).phil1993 wrote:I think there's no doubt that Hamilton is in a rut at the moment and he's having a pretty bad season, but even so, trying to justify a driver's bad performances by losing positions qualifying > race isn't a great analysis.
Hamilton was faster on quali, Vettel on race. STOP CRYING talking about debris, frontwing or another. Vettel pass Hamilton and manage his gap with him.
Edited:
Small incidents that used to be caused by him and his way of drive. And he get some penalties.phil1993 wrote:and the small incidents he keeps getting into.
top 3 car,phil1993 wrote:McLaren also aren't helped by the fact that the Ferrari is a lot closer in race trim than quali trim, meaning that McLaren in theory should be guaranteed Row 2, but in the race Ferrari can be on the podium (well, Alonso )
RBR are better than other in qualy and in races they used to get some laps awesome. But not the whole race.
Mclaren are balanced qualy vs Race. They get the best speed with DRS (not compared with mercedes)
Ferrari, are worst in qualy, but in race they used to be as faster as other. But they didn't have great speed to get overtakes with Mclaren or RBR
Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix
I never said that Hamilton wasn't at fault for most of the clashes; he has been.
Sometimes when something is wrong with the front of the car, it can't be changed with a simple wing change.
Sometimes when something is wrong with the front of the car, it can't be changed with a simple wing change.
Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix
I didn't say that you said that; or you said that hamilton would win. Was another. Thats was my first post about this:phil1993 wrote:I never said that Hamilton wasn't at fault for most of the clashes; he has been.
dacer wrote:Of course, debris ruins Ham race. he would lapped all other cars if there's not debris on track. And sure this debris was placed there by Alonso or Massa waiting to step on by hamilton.[b]JoostLamers[/b] wrote:I know what it is: It's a big shame, cause with it, Hamilton would have won: Fastest all weekend! Big big shame.F1Fan88 wrote:What is 10 points of downforce?Code: Select all
Whitmarsh: "Whether that is damage or debris or something else caught in the front wing, so Lewis lost about 10 points of downforce, which meant it was a bit of a handful."
Stop crying. Vettel was faster on race.
Yes that's true, sometimes everything is wrong, even you can't replace front wing. But at least they would try to replace. You can not know if you can't replace until you try it. And I didn't see if McLaren tried it, I think the didn't do.phil1993 wrote:Sometimes when something is wrong with the front of the car, it can't be changed with a simple wing change.
Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix
I honestly don't think McLaren had the pace to win the race - as seen by 2nd and 4th against 1st and 3rd for Red Bull. The latter focused on race pace, whilst McLaren was determined to get pole - something they achieved. Debris or not, Hamilton wasn't going to beat Vettel in a straight contest
Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix
that's what I think too. And I don't read Whitmarsh said that they lost cause front wing. I read, that they lost 10 points of downforce, without speculate about results.phil1993 wrote:I honestly don't think McLaren had the pace to win the race - as seen by 2nd and 4th against 1st and 3rd for Red Bull. The latter focused on race pace, whilst McLaren was determined to get pole - something they achieved. Debris or not, Hamilton wasn't going to beat Vettel in a straight contest
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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix
I honestly think Hamilton would have had a real shot at the win, if he wouldn't have had the front wing problems. He was in a good flow all weekend, and suddenly he is much slower than he used to be all weekend.dacer wrote:that's what I think too. And I don't read Whitmarsh said that they lost cause front wing. I read, that they lost 10 points of downforce, without speculate about results.phil1993 wrote:I honestly don't think McLaren had the pace to win the race - as seen by 2nd and 4th against 1st and 3rd for Red Bull. The latter focused on race pace, whilst McLaren was determined to get pole - something they achieved. Debris or not, Hamilton wasn't going to beat Vettel in a straight contest
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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix
He was overtaken in lap 1, turn 4. Thats what he fight with Vettel, 4 turns. There was not more story. Hamilton front wing was damaged in this first lap?.
Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix
Overtaking statistics in South Korea:
Overall Overtaking statistics in 2011 so far:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix
And where is Vettel to Hamilton, lap 1 turn 4?SpliTF1 wrote:Overtaking statistics in South Korea:Spoiler:
Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix
I think they don't count the first lap overtakes.