2011 Korean Grand Prix

2011 Formula One Season.

Who will win the Korean Grand Prix?

Sebastian Vettel
5
20%
Jenson Button
12
48%
Fernando Alonso
1
4%
Mark Webber
1
4%
Lewis Hamilton
3
12%
Felipe Massa
2
8%
Nico Rosberg
0
No votes
Michael Schumacher
1
4%
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 25

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sdutt
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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix

Post by sdutt » 19 Oct 2011, 06:31

if hamilton had pitted for wing change, he wouldnt have even come second, surely mclaren thought it through.
excuses are there to be given though, at the end they did not win
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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix

Post by dacer » 19 Oct 2011, 07:48

iceman1 wrote:It seems that Hamilton was upset because he broke up with Nicole ''hmm''
uppps, I hope was not Alonso the cause. He is married with Raquel del Rosario
sdutt wrote:if hamilton had pitted for wing change, he wouldnt have even come second, surely mclaren thought it through.
excuses are there to be given though, at the end they did not win
Surely, change front wing required more time than what he loose.

Eric_Cartman wrote: so that means that Ayrton Senna was the worst driver in F1 history because he lost the most positions in the race considering his grid position (-32) ? :zz:
If you start all races in pole, you only can loose points on races. It's Vettel example, he used to start at top positions, but it's not Hamilton example
Senna 1988 (9,6,4,3,2,1):
Grid (1-1-1-1-1-1-2-3-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1) = 133
Race (x-1-x-2-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-10-6-4-1-2) = 94
-39

Senna 1990 (9,6,4,3,2,1):
Grid (5-1-1-1-1-3-3-2-1-4-1-1-3-1-1-1) = 113
Race (1-3-x-1-1-20-3-3-1-2-1-1-2-x-x-x) =78
-35

Senna 1991 (10,6,4,3,2,1):
Grid (1-1-1-1-3-3-3-2-2-1-1-1-3-3-2-1) = 118
Race (1-1-1-1-x-3-3-4-7-1-1-2-2-5-2-(1 half points)) = 96
-22 (last race , Australia, was half points, so really -17)

Senna, as Vettel, this year used to start at top position, so it's easy to loose points
Hamilton this year, are not really good in grid, so you can not considerer he loose point because he is on top position on grid
3-4-3-9-5-3-10-2-2-2-2-4-3-1
Button,
2-6-5-2-7-6-5-7-3-13-3-3-2-3
Alonso
5-5-4-4-2-4-3-4-5-8-4-5-5-6

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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix

Post by phil1993 » 19 Oct 2011, 09:04

2-2-2-2-4-3-1

Yes, a truly woeful qualifying record.

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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix

Post by dacer » 19 Oct 2011, 11:52

phil1993 wrote:2-2-2-2-4-3-1

Yes, a truly woeful qualifying record.
Thats only seven races, the first seven was 3-4-3-9-5-3-10 . Not very awesome

The last seven races results: 1-4-x-4-5-5-2. Not very awesome results, only two podiums when he start as top 3 in all except one of this.

Button:
last seven qualis 7-3-13-3-3-2-3 (last four races was awesome, but as you choose seven races I will do the same)
last seven races x-1-3-2-2-1-4. Except one DNF, and a fourth, all other on podium. And if we look only last four races, 2(from 3) - 2(3) - 1(2) - 4(3), he loose one position in one race, and win one position in the other three

It's the same Hamilton vs Button, of course!! :confused: :confused: :confused:



EDITED
Another comparation:
Button grid vs Hamilton
4-4-2]-6-5-2-7-6-5-7-3-13-3-3-2-3
2-2-3-4-3-9-5-3-10-2-2-2-2-4-3-1

Hamilton get better grid position 12 times, button 4 times

Race results Button vs Hamilton (ignoring retired)
6-2-4-6-3-3-1-6-x-x-1-3-2-2-1-4
2-8-1-4-2-6-x-4-4-1-4-x-4-5-5-2
Hamilton get better race results 6 times, button 6 times too (4 retirement no count, 2 each)
Last edited by dacer on 19 Oct 2011, 12:06, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix

Post by phil1993 » 19 Oct 2011, 11:55

I think there's no doubt that Hamilton is in a rut at the moment and he's having a pretty bad season, but even so, trying to justify a driver's bad performances by losing positions qualifying > race isn't a great analysis. If you want to criticise him, point more towards his poor race pace (especially in Japan) and the small incidents he keeps getting into. McLaren also aren't helped by the fact that the Ferrari is a lot closer in race trim than quali trim, meaning that McLaren in theory should be guaranteed Row 2, but in the race Ferrari can be on the podium (well, Alonso :p)

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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix

Post by dacer » 19 Oct 2011, 12:09

phil1993 wrote:I think there's no doubt that Hamilton is in a rut at the moment and he's having a pretty bad season, but even so, trying to justify a driver's bad performances by losing positions qualifying > race isn't a great analysis.
Not, I'm criticise that someone said, Hamilton was faster one in qualy, so he didn't win the race cause a front wing fault (that they didn't replace when they can do).

Hamilton was faster on quali, Vettel on race. STOP CRYING talking about debris, frontwing or another. Vettel pass Hamilton and manage his gap with him.

Edited:
phil1993 wrote:and the small incidents he keeps getting into.
Small incidents that used to be caused by him and his way of drive. And he get some penalties.
phil1993 wrote:McLaren also aren't helped by the fact that the Ferrari is a lot closer in race trim than quali trim, meaning that McLaren in theory should be guaranteed Row 2, but in the race Ferrari can be on the podium (well, Alonso :p)
top 3 car,
RBR are better than other in qualy and in races they used to get some laps awesome. But not the whole race.
Mclaren are balanced qualy vs Race. They get the best speed with DRS (not compared with mercedes)
Ferrari, are worst in qualy, but in race they used to be as faster as other. But they didn't have great speed to get overtakes with Mclaren or RBR

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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix

Post by phil1993 » 19 Oct 2011, 12:19

I never said that Hamilton wasn't at fault for most of the clashes; he has been.

Sometimes when something is wrong with the front of the car, it can't be changed with a simple wing change.

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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix

Post by dacer » 19 Oct 2011, 12:28

phil1993 wrote:I never said that Hamilton wasn't at fault for most of the clashes; he has been.
I didn't say that you said that; or you said that hamilton would win. Was another. Thats was my first post about this:
dacer wrote:
[b]JoostLamers[/b] wrote:
F1Fan88 wrote:What is 10 points of downforce?

Code: Select all

Whitmarsh: "Whether that is damage or debris or something else caught in the front wing, so Lewis lost about 10 points of downforce, which meant it was a bit of a handful." 
I know what it is: It's a big shame, cause with it, Hamilton would have won: Fastest all weekend! Big big shame.
Of course, debris ruins Ham race. he would lapped all other cars if there's not debris on track. And sure this debris was placed there by Alonso or Massa waiting to step on by hamilton.

Stop crying. Vettel was faster on race.
phil1993 wrote:Sometimes when something is wrong with the front of the car, it can't be changed with a simple wing change.
Yes that's true, sometimes everything is wrong, even you can't replace front wing. But at least they would try to replace. You can not know if you can't replace until you try it. And I didn't see if McLaren tried it, I think the didn't do.

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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix

Post by phil1993 » 19 Oct 2011, 14:31

I honestly don't think McLaren had the pace to win the race - as seen by 2nd and 4th against 1st and 3rd for Red Bull. The latter focused on race pace, whilst McLaren was determined to get pole - something they achieved. Debris or not, Hamilton wasn't going to beat Vettel in a straight contest

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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix

Post by dacer » 19 Oct 2011, 15:08

phil1993 wrote:I honestly don't think McLaren had the pace to win the race - as seen by 2nd and 4th against 1st and 3rd for Red Bull. The latter focused on race pace, whilst McLaren was determined to get pole - something they achieved. Debris or not, Hamilton wasn't going to beat Vettel in a straight contest
that's what I think too. And I don't read Whitmarsh said that they lost cause front wing. I read, that they lost 10 points of downforce, without speculate about results.

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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix

Post by JoostLamers » 19 Oct 2011, 21:13

dacer wrote:
phil1993 wrote:I honestly don't think McLaren had the pace to win the race - as seen by 2nd and 4th against 1st and 3rd for Red Bull. The latter focused on race pace, whilst McLaren was determined to get pole - something they achieved. Debris or not, Hamilton wasn't going to beat Vettel in a straight contest
that's what I think too. And I don't read Whitmarsh said that they lost cause front wing. I read, that they lost 10 points of downforce, without speculate about results.

Sl2
I honestly think Hamilton would have had a real shot at the win, if he wouldn't have had the front wing problems. He was in a good flow all weekend, and suddenly he is much slower than he used to be all weekend.
<<<The flag Lew1s waved at
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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix

Post by dacer » 20 Oct 2011, 07:32

He was overtaken in lap 1, turn 4. Thats what he fight with Vettel, 4 turns. There was not more story. Hamilton front wing was damaged in this first lap?.

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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix

Post by SpliT » 20 Oct 2011, 15:21

Overtaking statistics in South Korea:
Spoiler:
P. Lap. Driver on Driver Position
1. 2 Sebastien Buemi Heikki Kovalainen 16
2. 2 Sergio Perez Heikki Kovalainen 17
3. 2 Jarno Trulli Daniel Ricciardo 21
4. 3 Jaime Alguersuari Adrian Sutil 11
5. 3 Sebastien Buemi Rubens Barrichello 15
6. 3 Jarno Trulli Timo Glock 20
7. 4 Sebastien Buemi Pastor Maldonado 14
8. 4 Bruno Senna Heikki Kovalainen 18
9. 5 Michael Schumacher Paul di Resta 9
10. 7 Jaime Alguersuari Paul di Resta 10
11. 7 Sebastien Buemi Kamui Kobayashi 13
12. 12 Rubens Barrichello Timo Glock 20
13. 14 Jenson Button Nico Rosberg 10
14. 14 Nico Rosberg Jenson Button 10
15. 15 Jenson Button Nico Rosberg 7
16. 15 Felipe Massa Pastor Maldonado 9
17. 15 Jarno Trulli Daniel Ricciardo 21
18. 16 Jenson Button Adrian Sutil 5
19. 16 Vitaly Petrov Fernando Alonso 12
20. 21 Jerome d'Ambrosio Daniel Ricciardo 20
21. 22 Sebastien Buemi Pastor Maldonado 11
22. 22 Rubens Barrichello Kamui Kobayashi 14
23. 24 Bruno Senna Kamui Kobayashi 14
24. 24 Kamui Kobayashi Bruno Senna 14
25. 24 Bruno Senna Kamui Kobayashi 14
26. 24 Pastor Maldonado Daniel Ricciardo 20
27. 25 Pastor Maldonado Jerome d'Ambrosio 18
28. 26 Adrian Sutil Paul di Resta 9
29. 26 Pastor Maldonado Timo Glock 17
30. 27 Felipe Massa Nico Rosberg 5
31. 27 Fernando Alonso Nico Rosberg 6
32. 29 Kamui Kobayashi Daniel Ricciardo 19
33. 29 Kamui Kobayashi Jerome d'Ambrosio 18
34. 29 Daniel Ricciado Jerome d'Ambrosio 19
35. 30 Pastor Maldonado Jerome d'Ambrosio 20
36. 31 Sebastien Buemi Paul di Resta 9
37. 31 Kamui Kobayashi Timo Glock 17
38. 35 Sebastien Buemi Adrian Sutil 7
39. 35 Paul di Resta Heikki Kovalainen 12
40. 36 Adrian Sutil Heikki Kovalainen 12
41. 39 Jarno Trulli Timo Glock 17
42. 49 Mark Webber Lewis Hamilton 2
43. 49 Lewis Hamilton Mark Webber 2
44. 49 Sebastien Buemi Paul di Resta 9
45. 50 Rubens Barrichello Bruno Senna 13
46. 55 Jaime Alguersuari Nico Rosberg 7



P. Driver Overtaking
1. Sebastien Buemi 8
2. Jarno Trulli 4
==. Kamui Kobayashi 4
==. Pastor Maldonado 4
5. Jenson Button 3
==. Jaime Alguersuari 3
==. Bruno Senna 3
==. Rubens Barrichello 3
9. Felipe Massa 2
==. Adrian Sutil 2
11. Michael Schumacher 1
==. Sergio Perez 1
==. Nico Rosberg 1
==. Vitaly Petrov 1
==. Jerome d'Ambrosio 1
==. Fernando Alonso 1
==. Daniel Ricciado 1
==. Paul di Resta 1
==. Mark Webber 1
==. Lewis Hamilton 1
Overall Overtaking statistics in 2011 so far:
Spoiler:
1. Jenson Button - 72
2. Mark Webber - 66
==. . Felipe Massa - 66
4. Michael Schumacher - 64
==. Lewis Hamilton - 64
==. Sebastien Buemi - 64
7. Jaime Alguersuari - 56
==. Kamui Kobayashi - 56
9. Sergio Perez - 54
10. Pastor Maldonado - 53
11. Paul Di Resta - 51
12. Adrian Sutil - 45
13 Nico Rosberg - 44
14. Rubens Barrichello - 42
15. Nick Heidfeld - 36
16. Vitaly Petrov - 34
17. Fernando Alonso - 32
18. Sebasian Vettel - 24
19. Bruno Senna - 20
==. Jarno Trulli - 20
21. Heikki Kovalainen - 14
22. Timo Glock - 11
23. Jerome D'Ambrosio - 10
24. Vitantonio Liuzzi - 8
25. Pedro De La Rosa - 4
==. Daniel Ricciardo - 4
27. Narain Karthikeyan - 3
28. Karun Chandhok - 0

1017 overtaking in 16 races = 63,5625 overtaking per race.

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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix

Post by dacer » 20 Oct 2011, 16:52

SpliTF1 wrote:Overtaking statistics in South Korea:
Spoiler:
P. Lap. Driver on Driver Position
1. 2 Sebastien Buemi Heikki Kovalainen 16
2. 2 Sergio Perez Heikki Kovalainen 17
3. 2 Jarno Trulli Daniel Ricciardo 21
4. 3 Jaime Alguersuari Adrian Sutil 11
5. 3 Sebastien Buemi Rubens Barrichello 15
6. 3 Jarno Trulli Timo Glock 20
7. 4 Sebastien Buemi Pastor Maldonado 14
8. 4 Bruno Senna Heikki Kovalainen 18
9. 5 Michael Schumacher Paul di Resta 9
10. 7 Jaime Alguersuari Paul di Resta 10
11. 7 Sebastien Buemi Kamui Kobayashi 13
12. 12 Rubens Barrichello Timo Glock 20
13. 14 Jenson Button Nico Rosberg 10
14. 14 Nico Rosberg Jenson Button 10
15. 15 Jenson Button Nico Rosberg 7
16. 15 Felipe Massa Pastor Maldonado 9
17. 15 Jarno Trulli Daniel Ricciardo 21
18. 16 Jenson Button Adrian Sutil 5
19. 16 Vitaly Petrov Fernando Alonso 12
20. 21 Jerome d'Ambrosio Daniel Ricciardo 20
21. 22 Sebastien Buemi Pastor Maldonado 11
22. 22 Rubens Barrichello Kamui Kobayashi 14
23. 24 Bruno Senna Kamui Kobayashi 14
24. 24 Kamui Kobayashi Bruno Senna 14
25. 24 Bruno Senna Kamui Kobayashi 14
26. 24 Pastor Maldonado Daniel Ricciardo 20
27. 25 Pastor Maldonado Jerome d'Ambrosio 18
28. 26 Adrian Sutil Paul di Resta 9
29. 26 Pastor Maldonado Timo Glock 17
30. 27 Felipe Massa Nico Rosberg 5
31. 27 Fernando Alonso Nico Rosberg 6
32. 29 Kamui Kobayashi Daniel Ricciardo 19
33. 29 Kamui Kobayashi Jerome d'Ambrosio 18
34. 29 Daniel Ricciado Jerome d'Ambrosio 19
35. 30 Pastor Maldonado Jerome d'Ambrosio 20
36. 31 Sebastien Buemi Paul di Resta 9
37. 31 Kamui Kobayashi Timo Glock 17
38. 35 Sebastien Buemi Adrian Sutil 7
39. 35 Paul di Resta Heikki Kovalainen 12
40. 36 Adrian Sutil Heikki Kovalainen 12
41. 39 Jarno Trulli Timo Glock 17
42. 49 Mark Webber Lewis Hamilton 2
43. 49 Lewis Hamilton Mark Webber 2
44. 49 Sebastien Buemi Paul di Resta 9
45. 50 Rubens Barrichello Bruno Senna 13
46. 55 Jaime Alguersuari Nico Rosberg 7



P. Driver Overtaking
1. Sebastien Buemi 8
2. Jarno Trulli 4
==. Kamui Kobayashi 4
==. Pastor Maldonado 4
5. Jenson Button 3
==. Jaime Alguersuari 3
==. Bruno Senna 3
==. Rubens Barrichello 3
9. Felipe Massa 2
==. Adrian Sutil 2
11. Michael Schumacher 1
==. Sergio Perez 1
==. Nico Rosberg 1
==. Vitaly Petrov 1
==. Jerome d'Ambrosio 1
==. Fernando Alonso 1
==. Daniel Ricciado 1
==. Paul di Resta 1
==. Mark Webber 1
==. Lewis Hamilton 1
And where is Vettel to Hamilton, lap 1 turn 4?

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Re: 2011 Korean Grand Prix

Post by Vorull » 20 Oct 2011, 17:03

I think they don't count the first lap overtakes.

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