Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

[Dark_Fisico]

It actually really doesn't matter whether they used it or not...

A Macca employee had a copy of info on the Ferrari team, that is ILLEGAL...

McLaren are responsible for their employees actions, unfair I know, but thats the rules... Therefore McLaren and ONLY McLaren should be in trouble and punished... The drivers championship should be left alone because whatever happened the drivers just drive the car... I don't see Hamilton or Alonso being quite as into car development as some drivers...

Therefore McLaren should be punished with fines or points taken away in the constructors... Doesn't matter if Ron Dennis has seen the data, or if it has been used in anyway, it is illegal to hold information on another team and it is impossible to prove whether its used in anyway specially with a team as clever as McLaren... They could have done ANYTHING with the information and been smart enough to change it enough so it doesn't look like they used the Ferrari data... But at the end of the day its still illegal to hold the information so there should be some sort of punishment...

[maltafan]

hmm, very interesting comments from everybody .. although ..

I feel that alot of you are missing the whole point [the ones that agree with the verdict]

.. at the end of day, they [macca] had/has the complete DNA of the F2007 - How on earth can that not help them develop their own car?

They'd by now know every weakness and strength of the F2007 performance and would surely be able to set their MP4-22 up to compete against it in certain conditions - they certainly wouldn't need to duplicate any parts, just simply enhance their own.

I find it utterly ridiculous that the FIA came to that decision - although - I can see why .. have a look at this ridiculous take on it here

having said all that, Ferrari will have the last laugh when Kimi beats 'em on the track

if one day his car might be as reliable as the Maccas

[GodHatesKimi]

The Formula One spying row has taken a new turn after McLaren accused Ferrari of winning this year's Australian Grand Prix with an illegal car.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 927201.stm

LEAVE KIMI OUT OF THIS!!!

[lucian]

I can't wait to find out the outcome of this. And I hope it will be at least something bad for McLaren as a team, they've got good after such a long time only due to stolen information, what a shame.

[iceman1]

[Juan-ito]

it's a shame that in FIA and in the F1 happend this kind of things

[Bobdredds]

There's a lot of nonsense going around this and McLaren are clearly trying to get away with a clear infraction by attacking Ferrari because of the appeal. Well here is one discrepency that has nothing to do with Ferrari directly but about McLaren and Stepany.

McLaren, specifically Ron said that they only recieved information on Ferrari's floor and they recieved it from Stepany. Stepany says he didnt send McLaren the information. One or both of them are lying.

Does anyone really believe that Ron, having recieved potentially damaging information on his main rival, didnt anally examine and interview everyone involved to

(A) confirm the source and information and

(B) check to see what other information would be available.

Also the fact that a firewall was put in place suggests that high level discussions took place over this and not a brief aside as they would have you believe. Only a senior exec could impliment such a move.

McLaren played with fire allowing a link to Ferrari provide them with information and that link overstepped the mark and brought the team to where they now are and they should pay for it.

Also rather than Coughlan trying bring information to another team as McLaren would have you believe I think he was trying to ingratiate or reingratiate with his McLaren bosses and I suggest that the way he handled the Ferrari documents confirm this.

I'm sure he was lauded for the floor information and possibly encouraged to bring any such information to the table. I'm sure McLaren didnt ask him to do anything close to what he was caught doing but they should have been more vigilant and now they should pay because they weren't.

They were found guilty of breaching an essential and important rule that has historically brought severe penalties in the past even when its been proved that the team were acting in good faith and circumstances caught them out.

I believe disqualification would be a shame or anything that would affect the drivers score or on track battles but Ron and McLaren must pay the piper and it would be better for F1 et al if they did it with a certain amount of humility, they were found guilty after all, instead of attacking those who in this case are the victims.
He's simply pissing people off with his arrogance and there's a few, Flav for instance, who want to see him humbled and I guess they will get their wish this time. Even his usual supporters are falling short of supporting him.

Ciao Bob

[domenico]

As Max Mosley stated in his letter, there were indeed a number of suspicious elements in McLarens statements, but there was no way to prove wrong doing by the team, except for Coughlan. McLaren were able to convince the governing body that Coughlan was working alone and this is why they escaped punishment.

The real evidence is why has Coughlan only been suspended by the team? He has admitted to receiving and filing information from Ferrari and yet McLaren only suspends him??? To me it suggests that McLaren knew all along what Coughlan was doing and did not tell him to stop talking to Stepney, just told him to not get caught. So they setup firewalls etc but then ask Coughlan to go to Barcelona to tell Stepney not to continue talking to him???... But instead Coughlan comes back with 780 pages of documentation about Ferrari.

This being the case, and indeed if Coughlan was working on his own and against the requests of his team then they surely would have fired him instead. But no they suspend him because Coughlan can bring down the team and tell the FIA that he was asked by the team to get the docs. Coughlan is acting as a voluntary scapegoat in this matter, Ferrari know this as do the FIA however there is no real evidence to prove it.

We need new evidence if we are to succeed at an appeal.

[iceman1]

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press...260707-01.html

They were given a suspended sentence (in lieu of a more severe punishment) for breeching sporing rule 151c.However,they seem to have breeched that same rule again quite recently! But it still remains for Ferrari to convince the ICA that McLaren need to be punished more severely.

[mirek01]

I think FIA did this to fast they want to close that case very quickly. McLaren should be punished but question how , pay money ,points deduction from team ?Remember BAR-Honda they have second tank of fuel and FIA want exclude them to whole season , so McLaren are better team?
I'm sure that McLaren profited from documents stolen from Ferrari , they know how team Ferrari working , what philosophy they have.

[iceman1]

%Biggrin Oh My God ,Formula 1 McLaren-Ferrari row gets personal with Dennis and Todt in pit lane brawl
http://newsbiscuit.com/article/formula- ... -brawl-174

[megasyxx]

hmm, very interesting comments from everybody .. although ..

I feel that alot of you are missing the whole point [the ones that agree with the verdict]

.. at the end of day, they [macca] had/has the complete DNA of the F2007

is it they [macca] or him [coughlan] ???

[decesaris]

Stepney-guilty!
McLaren-Not guilty!

[roger]

i just dont want the drivers to be punished, sure punish the team, but let the drivers continues with their campaigns even if no one at mclaren seems to be on speaking terms

[Dark_Fisico]

Stepney-guilty!
McLaren-Not guilty!

I thought the FIA said McLaren WERE guilty... They just didn't get punished (suprise, suprise )...