Yeah but it is also unfair to punish the whole team & drivers for the actions of one or two silly men *cough* Stepney *cough* Coughlin *cough*Bobdredds wrote:Not to punish any team for such a serious infraction would be even more damaging and the consensus around the paddock from other teams and drivers is that they were found guilty therefore they must be punished. That is without question but it would be nice if the drivers championship was allowed to continue without interference and that seems to be the main consensus.mclarenmatt wrote:F1 really doesnt need this right now, punishing mclaren will make the sport have a bad image, just as it seems we are gaining alot more interest again
Ciao Bob
Where will be Alonso in 2008?
Re: Alonso free to leave McLaren?
Re: Alonso free to leave McLaren?
The infringement in question covers the whole team and of course its proper they are punished as a team otherwise it leaves the door open to all sorts of shady carry on. F1 is a team sport after all. I'm surprised you take that line. Anyway Flavio has come out and clearly stated that he thinks they should be excluded as a team as they have recieved and used information on Bridgestone tyres to adapt the car. That is what he is claiming and now the issue is no longer simply McLaren vs Ferrari, it McLaren vs everyone else practically according to Flav.
I'm pretty sure the decision last week was tempered with political and other motivations in an attempt to preserve the ontrack battles but Ron would have been better off had they been punished with a fine or maybe even constructors points deducted and while people might have argued on both sides regarding leniency etc. it would have faded within a short time. But the outcome and the incessant Ronspeak coming from McLaren has simply added to the detioration of the situation allowing others to become involved and apply even more pressure.
It is one thing for McLaren refute statements with relevant Ronspeak but under cross examination it will be a different matter entirely IMHO.
With reference to your comment....if senior members were involved and they were then it is the whole team that should be punished. It would simply be better if the drivers were allowed to continue unhindered because the ontrack stuff is great however even this is down to McLarens possession of Ferraris documents and I guess he will argue while no part can be identified on the McLarens, the setups possibly could. How can you prove or disprove such a thing.
One thing is for sure, Ron said that information came from Stepeny and Nigel denies it. Someone is lying or being very very economical with the truth.
Ciao Bob
I'm pretty sure the decision last week was tempered with political and other motivations in an attempt to preserve the ontrack battles but Ron would have been better off had they been punished with a fine or maybe even constructors points deducted and while people might have argued on both sides regarding leniency etc. it would have faded within a short time. But the outcome and the incessant Ronspeak coming from McLaren has simply added to the detioration of the situation allowing others to become involved and apply even more pressure.
It is one thing for McLaren refute statements with relevant Ronspeak but under cross examination it will be a different matter entirely IMHO.
With reference to your comment....if senior members were involved and they were then it is the whole team that should be punished. It would simply be better if the drivers were allowed to continue unhindered because the ontrack stuff is great however even this is down to McLarens possession of Ferraris documents and I guess he will argue while no part can be identified on the McLarens, the setups possibly could. How can you prove or disprove such a thing.
One thing is for sure, Ron said that information came from Stepeny and Nigel denies it. Someone is lying or being very very economical with the truth.
Ciao Bob
Re: Alonso free to leave McLaren?
i wouldnt be surprised if alonso wasnt racing for mclaren next year! i dont think they really want him there!
i just hope he doesnt come to ferrari!
that 'spy' saga that is still going on, i dont think it is really going to determin if fernando stays or not.
i just hope he doesnt come to ferrari!
that 'spy' saga that is still going on, i dont think it is really going to determin if fernando stays or not.
Thankyou Schumi you will always have a place in our hearts!
Michael Schumacher- 7 volte Campione del mondo!
SIMPLY THE BEST
Michael Schumacher- 7 volte Campione del mondo!
SIMPLY THE BEST
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kimstericegirl
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Re: Alonso free to leave McLaren?
I don't understand Alonso's behaviour. Six months ago he said that McLaren was the best team and he has always dreamed to come in this team, but now he says that he's unhappy, and he says also that he expected something in McLaren, he thought that McLaren was as he tought, but it was not like that and now maybe he thinks that he made a mistake when he came to McLaren. I think it was not a mistake, even I like McLaren and I don't like very much Fernando Alonso, but for him McLaren is a good team, and also they don't have any problems of rebiablity and the car works well.
Go straight to the finish line with ChequeredFlags!
Re: Alonso free to leave McLaren?
where he want.reyhan wrote:And where would he go???
Ferrari will be surely the best choice. Good car, and no need to develop a bad car. BMW, want alonso, but now BMW is as Mclaren last year (3º constructor, last year Renault-Ferrari-McLaren, this McLaren-Ferrari-BMW), so he had to develop it as he did with McLaren this year.
I don't thing he goes back to Renault. If he does, a lot of on Renault have to close his mouths
Re: Alonso free to leave McLaren?
O yeah..Hmm..he have a difficult year anyway with the Mclaren.Look like he cannot show his self better with Mclaren compared when he with renault,that get his grab 2 world title championship bac to back. But i think, it little big difficult to him to grab again the title this year, he have the biggest challenge from hamilton,his teammate!!!.But I think alonso not able to switch the team early.. @Beer Someday..
UPDATED: Will Hungary cause Alonso to quit McLaren?
http://www.crash.net/news_view~cid~1~id~152502.htm
Will Hungary cause Alonso to quit McLaren?
Monday, 6th August 2007
World champion insists relationship with team cannot improve.
Fernando Alonso has cast doubt on whether he will see out the term of his contract with McLaren following the bust-up after qualifying at the Hungarian Grand Prix on Saturday.
According to reports in the Spanish media, the two-time world champion has hinted that the atmosphere within the camp - exacerbated by the breakdown in communications between Alonso and team-mate Lewis Hamilton - may make his decide to break links with Woking well before the end of his three-year deal.
"I do not know," the Spaniard responded when asked whether he felt he could remain at the team next season, "The business yesterday was somewhat new for the team. Hamilton not paying attention, or disobeying [instructions], was something that it had not experienced."
While he accepted that relations between Hamilton and the team may be frosty for a while, pointing to the muted reception the Briton received after returning to both parc ferme and the McLaren motorhome, he could not see his own situation changing.
"I suppose that, during the next few days, Hamilton will have worse relations with various members of the team - but I will have the same one, and it will not improve," he suggested..
Alonso went on to try and paint a rosier picture of his situation, suggesting that muted congratulations that awaited Hamilton after his victory may have been a reflection of the team's dissatisfaction with the events of Saturday, before attempting to claim that he was happy with fourth place in the race after being demoted to sixth on the grid.
"I was fastest, with the 'pole', yesterday and, today too, the car went well," he continued, "The race went as well as could be expected. We knew that [reaching] the podium was difficult because, at this track, it is very hard to pass. Of course, we dreamt of the podium, and we were close to it, but fourth place was not bad, and the difference is only a point between third and fourth.
"I felt frustration on Saturday night but, when I got up on Sunday, I was already focused on the race, I had 'changed the chip'. It is obvious that, if I had started from the pole, I would probably have won the race. My objective was to leave Hungary as leader of the world championship, and I believe that that was possible until they sanctioned me."
With the rumour mill hinting that he may be a target for Renault boss Flavio Briatore - who, on Friday, again confirmed that he would not be defining Renault's 2008 line-up until Monza at the earliest - Alonso admitted that he hoped the impending summer break would allow tensions at McLaren to cool, so that the team could return to normal in Turkey, and allow him to continue chasing a third world title.
"Hopefully, at the next race, all will be in order and we can try to win again - him as much as me," he said, not mentioning Hamilton by name, "However, in Turkey, I am sure that Ferrari will be fast again, perhaps even more than us.
"I came from a champion team to a team that finished eighth and ninth last year, and I thought that I was going to have a very difficult year in 2007, but I have found the possibility to win another championship, so I have to be happy. Of course, there is a bad taste in the mouth if you are not able to finish some races or have bad luck in others, but there are six races to go and I'll be there."
"Winning the title will be difficult," he admitted, reflecting on the extended seven-point gap between himself and Hamilton, "In other years, I was the one with the advantage and had to defend. This year, I am always on the limit, but I am always behind - a little more, a little less. You arrive at every race weekend knowing that you have to climb another mountain, that you are going to have that to fight against many things.
"But I won't lift off until the last lap in Brazil. Last year, things didn't look too good but, in the penultimate race, Michael Schumacher broke his motor and I won the championship. I will be the last one throwing in the towel."
Will Hungary cause Alonso to quit McLaren?
Monday, 6th August 2007
World champion insists relationship with team cannot improve.
Fernando Alonso has cast doubt on whether he will see out the term of his contract with McLaren following the bust-up after qualifying at the Hungarian Grand Prix on Saturday.
According to reports in the Spanish media, the two-time world champion has hinted that the atmosphere within the camp - exacerbated by the breakdown in communications between Alonso and team-mate Lewis Hamilton - may make his decide to break links with Woking well before the end of his three-year deal.
"I do not know," the Spaniard responded when asked whether he felt he could remain at the team next season, "The business yesterday was somewhat new for the team. Hamilton not paying attention, or disobeying [instructions], was something that it had not experienced."
While he accepted that relations between Hamilton and the team may be frosty for a while, pointing to the muted reception the Briton received after returning to both parc ferme and the McLaren motorhome, he could not see his own situation changing.
"I suppose that, during the next few days, Hamilton will have worse relations with various members of the team - but I will have the same one, and it will not improve," he suggested..
Alonso went on to try and paint a rosier picture of his situation, suggesting that muted congratulations that awaited Hamilton after his victory may have been a reflection of the team's dissatisfaction with the events of Saturday, before attempting to claim that he was happy with fourth place in the race after being demoted to sixth on the grid.
"I was fastest, with the 'pole', yesterday and, today too, the car went well," he continued, "The race went as well as could be expected. We knew that [reaching] the podium was difficult because, at this track, it is very hard to pass. Of course, we dreamt of the podium, and we were close to it, but fourth place was not bad, and the difference is only a point between third and fourth.
"I felt frustration on Saturday night but, when I got up on Sunday, I was already focused on the race, I had 'changed the chip'. It is obvious that, if I had started from the pole, I would probably have won the race. My objective was to leave Hungary as leader of the world championship, and I believe that that was possible until they sanctioned me."
With the rumour mill hinting that he may be a target for Renault boss Flavio Briatore - who, on Friday, again confirmed that he would not be defining Renault's 2008 line-up until Monza at the earliest - Alonso admitted that he hoped the impending summer break would allow tensions at McLaren to cool, so that the team could return to normal in Turkey, and allow him to continue chasing a third world title.
"Hopefully, at the next race, all will be in order and we can try to win again - him as much as me," he said, not mentioning Hamilton by name, "However, in Turkey, I am sure that Ferrari will be fast again, perhaps even more than us.
"I came from a champion team to a team that finished eighth and ninth last year, and I thought that I was going to have a very difficult year in 2007, but I have found the possibility to win another championship, so I have to be happy. Of course, there is a bad taste in the mouth if you are not able to finish some races or have bad luck in others, but there are six races to go and I'll be there."
"Winning the title will be difficult," he admitted, reflecting on the extended seven-point gap between himself and Hamilton, "In other years, I was the one with the advantage and had to defend. This year, I am always on the limit, but I am always behind - a little more, a little less. You arrive at every race weekend knowing that you have to climb another mountain, that you are going to have that to fight against many things.
"But I won't lift off until the last lap in Brazil. Last year, things didn't look too good but, in the penultimate race, Michael Schumacher broke his motor and I won the championship. I will be the last one throwing in the towel."
Re: Alonso free to leave McLaren?
two years ago, Alonso won championship fighting with McLarensyafiqa wrote:O yeah..Hmm..he have a difficult year anyway with the Mclaren.Look like he cannot show his self better with Mclaren compared when he with renault,that get his grab 2 world title championship bac to back. But i think, it little big difficult to him to grab again the title this year, he have the biggest challenge from hamilton,his teammate!!!.But I think alonso not able to switch the team early.. @Beer Someday..
Last year, Alonso won championship fighting with Ferrari and with FIA
This year Alonso will win championship fighting with Ferrari, FIA and his own Team
Some press say Alonso next year will not run on f1. Maybe true, there are no more rivals to beat!!!
Renault won 2 championship, and Flavio said that Renault and himself are great, and Fisico said he is better than alonso. We see it this year.
McLaren last year didn't get any win. This year lead team and drivers championship. Sure are Ron Denis or Hamilton who make this.
Alonso is the best driver ___NOW___ on f1. He develop normal cars to wining cars, and he beat on track to any driver. Look last year shumi.
The best Alonso can do, is to win this championship and go to another team, as Ferrari or BMW. Next year we will see Hamilton fighting to score some point every race, and Alonso again wining!!
Re: Alonso free to leave McLaren?
Wow, nice high spirits bro...I do appreciate Alonso, he adds spice to the flavour..Alonso is the best driver ___NOW___ on f1. He develop normal cars to wining cars, and he beat on track to any driver. Look last year shumi.
but.... he's racecraft sucks bigtime... he develop chances into luck only (where he is reaaly damn good eih)
look, anyone could prove or show anyone he won the '05 and '06 FAIR & SQUARE...let us be known and forever we will be hounded by the Spaniard, not even a single skill he handed out during those seasons, but every driver would say "Thats Racing Mate"
Alonso would suit the likes of the least underperforming teams...so that he could show hisso called "talent and skills"
he will be ass kicked by McLaren, not welcome to Ferrari or BMW or Williams the most...my $.2 here
The juice is worth the squeeze
Re: Alonso free to leave McLaren?
McLaren are using Alonso as a teacher for Hamilton in many respects with regards to car setup, but seeing as how Hamilton has now got a handle on this, and due to the internal conflict in the team with having equal status within the team McLaren would be better off with a clear number 1. Would be cheaper to hold onto Alonso and have Renault buy Alonso out of his contract.
Ferrari is not suited to Alonso as he would create the same drama with Kimi, he needs to be in a team where he is a clear number 1. Ferrari have got Massa and Kimi, and although they have stated that they are equal, they are waiting for Kimis natural speed to show Massa that he must be a number 2 within the team. They are doing the right thing and giving him a chance to fight for the top spot however he wont achieve this.
Isn't it funny, after all the years Ferrari adopted a clear number 1 driver principle at their team and they have never had the drama's that McLaren have had this year with an equal driver status. Sure there was Austria in 2002, but the FIA never gave position penalties and the drivers never publicly criticised one another even if they wanted to. I wonder if McLaren is now re thinking their driver policy. They shouldn't have to, an assessment of the number 1 driver policy should be somewhere in the 780 pages they have from Ferrari. !grin!
Ferrari is not suited to Alonso as he would create the same drama with Kimi, he needs to be in a team where he is a clear number 1. Ferrari have got Massa and Kimi, and although they have stated that they are equal, they are waiting for Kimis natural speed to show Massa that he must be a number 2 within the team. They are doing the right thing and giving him a chance to fight for the top spot however he wont achieve this.
Isn't it funny, after all the years Ferrari adopted a clear number 1 driver principle at their team and they have never had the drama's that McLaren have had this year with an equal driver status. Sure there was Austria in 2002, but the FIA never gave position penalties and the drivers never publicly criticised one another even if they wanted to. I wonder if McLaren is now re thinking their driver policy. They shouldn't have to, an assessment of the number 1 driver policy should be somewhere in the 780 pages they have from Ferrari. !grin!
Re: Alonso free to leave McLaren?
Thats a heck of a truth...hehehe maybe mate..maybe Uncle Ron Overlooked the dosier and never read the no.1 driver policy, but rather focused on the advantage that they could gain... they overexceeded the advantage and the downfall is visible on the drivers...tsktskdomenico wrote:McLaren are using Alonso as a teacher for Hamilton in many respects with regards to car setup, but seeing as how Hamilton has now got a handle on this, and due to the internal conflict in the team with having equal status within the team McLaren would be better off with a clear number 1. Would be cheaper to hold onto Alonso and have Renault buy Alonso out of his contract.
Ferrari is not suited to Alonso as he would create the same drama with Kimi, he needs to be in a team where he is a clear number 1. Ferrari have got Massa and Kimi, and although they have stated that they are equal, they are waiting for Kimis natural speed to show Massa that he must be a number 2 within the team. They are doing the right thing and giving him a chance to fight for the top spot however he wont achieve this.
Isn't it funny, after all the years Ferrari adopted a clear number 1 driver principle at their team and they have never had the drama's that McLaren have had this year with an equal driver status. Sure there was Austria in 2002, but the FIA never gave position penalties and the drivers never publicly criticised one another even if they wanted to. I wonder if McLaren is now re thinking their driver policy. They shouldn't have to, an assessment of the number 1 driver policy should be somewhere in the 780 pages they have from Ferrari. !grin!
The juice is worth the squeeze
Re: Alonso free to leave McLaren?
Atricle in the Spanish paper Marca, with an interview with Alonso:
http://www.marca.com/
Total war!
Alonso : "It's either me or him."
Alonso is searching a new team, as his manager was seen talking with several team bosses, including Flavio Briatore (likely to ask how to break his contract), Toyota bosses and Mario Theissen. With the later he spent more than an hour talking about we don't know what, but Marca is sure it's something about a contract
http://www.marca.com/
Total war!
Alonso : "It's either me or him."
Alonso is searching a new team, as his manager was seen talking with several team bosses, including Flavio Briatore (likely to ask how to break his contract), Toyota bosses and Mario Theissen. With the later he spent more than an hour talking about we don't know what, but Marca is sure it's something about a contract
Re: Alonso free to leave McLaren?
iceman1 wrote:Atricle in the Spanish paper Marca, with an interview with Alonso:
http://www.marca.com/
Total war!
Alonso : "It's either me or him."
Alonso is searching a new team, as his manager was seen talking with several team bosses, including Flavio Briatore (likely to ask how to break his contract), Toyota bosses and Mario Theissen. With the later he spent more than an hour talking about we don't know what, but Marca is sure it's something about a contract
Article:
http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/moto ... 24100.html
translate with google
http://translate.google.com/translate?u ... uage_tools
I'm spanish and I use to read this and another press. Marca is quite hard with McLaren, but also Marca is one of bigest diarys.
Edited:
anothers articles:
Alonso studies how to break his contract with McLaren:
esp - eng
Hamilton to Dennis: “You do not return to do this in your puta life”
esp - eng
Translate fail with the word "puta". If you don't know, is "tu puta vida", I thinks is "in your f**k**g life" (sorry)
Re: Alonso free to leave McLaren?
from spainish press, the nº2 of main press diary
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/20 ... 89343.html
http://translate.google.com/translate?u ... uage_tools
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/20 ... 89343.html
http://translate.google.com/translate?u ... uage_tools
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Silver Shadow
- GP2 Driver
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Re: Alonso free to leave McLaren?
My personal opinion is that this whole thing is blown out of proportion. I think that since Alonso is not satisfied, he will leave McLaren, but not without trying to win his team a championship. On the other hand, he might try to pull a Schumi by moving to Toyota or a team that's not so good...
