2012 Formula One Discussion

[LiamN]

Ferrari thinks they have solved the problem in new exhaust system:
http://www.marca.com/2012/06/07/motor/f ... 66876.html (in Spanish)

Good read. Ferrari bringing new rear, front wings and further tweaks to exhausts for Canada.

AutoSprint reports that Ferrari will test the original version of the F2012 Exhaust in Montreal. Basically, similar to the version Fernando tested on the first day in Mugello. Obviously the Acer Duct version where the exhaust gasses get to the floor provides the most downforce. If it doesn't work, they can revert back to the Spain/Monaco solution which works well.

[phil1993]

Meanwhile:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100172

Dany Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahar

[Suomileijona]

Guys, thank you very much for the articles!

[reppo]

Reuters say that Spain is going to ask money to support Spanish Banks
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/ ... DX20120608

(Reuters) - Spain is expected to request European aid for its ailing banks at the weekend to forestall worsening market turmoil, becoming the fourth and biggest country to seek assistance since the euro zone's debt crisis began, EU and German sources said.

Though Santander is not in any danger of falling, it comes more and more difficult to explain to shareholders why sponsoring F1 is useful. When does this economic crisis finally end.

[mikhailv]

Reuters say that Spain is going to ask money to support Spanish Banks
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/ ... DX20120608

(Reuters) - Spain is expected to request European aid for its ailing banks at the weekend to forestall worsening market turmoil, becoming the fourth and biggest country to seek assistance since the euro zone's debt crisis began, EU and German sources said.

Though Santander is not in any danger of falling, it comes more and more difficult to explain to shareholders why sponsoring F1 is useful. When does this economic crisis finally end.

Santander may be spanish, but last year the company made £4.48bn proft, with £1.8bn provision for Spain and £600million for portugal. It also got the 9% capital as per the requirement of European bank authority 6 months ahead of the target period. Its the £32billion in spanish property the bank owns where it could make a serious loss. But,Santander is booming of sorts to say what mess the economy is in, Abbey made £1billion in profit in the UK, down 40%, but £538million was for PPI claims and it lent £4.3billion out.

SO all in all, Santander spending what, £300million maximum on F1 sponsorship for two teams, paying Alonso's wage and sponsoring the 4 home races of the teams and drivers..... they probably claw that back if anything surpass it.

[reppo]

There are now two big Spanish banks which can stand on their own and Santander is the other one, but if the economy in Europe declines badly as some economists say, and Spain and Italy goes to same way as Greece all banks are hurt. They say there is not enough collateral to cover the losses and euro counties simply have not enough money to increase them. If the worst happens some banks will come out as winners and collect the profit. Could be interesting to see if old bank signs are changed to something like Hua Xia Bank or Xiamen International Bank. Such chaos in markets could last long, and it can only mean bad for European F1 sponsorship.

[mikhailv]

There are now two big Spanish banks which can stand on their own and Santander is the other one, but if the economy in Europe declines badly as some economists say, and Spain and Italy goes to same way as Greece all banks are hurt. They say there is not enough collateral to cover the losses and euro counties simply have not enough money to increase them. If the worst happens some banks will come out as winners and collect the profit. Could be interesting to see if old bank signs are changed to something like Hua Xia Bank or Xiamen International Bank. Such chaos in markets could last long, and it can only mean bad for European F1 sponsorship.

Spain, Greece and Italy folding from the Euro will jsut cause chaos in the western society, regardless of country. The only safe zones are the east to be honest.

The euro was a joke anyway. It was never a level playing field because so many countries had so little exports and business it would never work. Germany has a massive industry, Greece? Tourism.

Anyway watching this on UK GOLD earlier in the week. Thought i'd share it with you guys. Might not appreciate classic, british humour!

[MavF1]

The Euro isn't a joke and I think it's important that we keep it. I know the British have their issues with the EU, I personally find the UK government's categorical "No" to a financial transaction tax rather annoying. Understandable, since London is one of the biggest global financial centers, but not reasonable.
I agree with you though that any of the aforementioned countries folding from the Euro would create chaos and not only in Europe I assume. It's been four years now since the crisis in the US came to light and it started a chain of events that just triggers one crisis after another, it seems to be a never ending story.
Anyway, this is getting offtopic.

[donald29]

This is getting heavy.

[mikhailv]

The Euro isn't a joke and I think it's important that we keep it. I know the British have their issues with the EU, I personally find the UK government's categorical "No" to a financial transaction tax rather annoying. Understandable, since London is one of the biggest global financial centers, but not reasonable.
I agree with you though that any of the aforementioned countries folding from the Euro would create chaos and not only in Europe I assume. It's been four years now since the crisis in the US came to light and it started a chain of events that just triggers one crisis after another, it seems to be a never ending story.
Anyway, this is getting offtopic.

The euro is a failure because not every country is equal.

How can Greece have the same value of currency as that of germany for example? Exchange rates for different countries was there for a reason'; a reflection of each countries economy; how much one currency is worth to another based on its own performance. Thats why we always had £1 was nearly $2 for example, before the crisis.

One currency is a great idea on paper, but the fact is germany has a big industry, Greece doesnt for example. How can the two be considered equal when they are anything but? Fiscal equality and parity would be needed, meaning each country must be the same as the other for it to work. But it doesnt work because there is zero equality within the EU currency. It was a huge mistake having one currency because it has one value for all countries.

[donald29]

Going to join in the off-topic chat here...

You're right mikhailv. These documentaries are well worth a watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEbioTWE6Gg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHtNlj1JbLg

Back on topic Christian Horner claims he has not spoken to Lewis Hamilton this year, unlike in Canada last year.

[mikhailv]

Yus, great watches. I think us brits get called downcast anti-euro sceptics. I tend to prefer to think of it as being realists. DId you ever see Nigel Farrage of UKIP calling belgium 'not even a real bloody country anyway'!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ6rfxoEFI4

This is interesting from last week from him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtX-gkOEotY

Anyway, I reckon RB was talking to Lewis from China onwards to be honest.

[reppo]

Does it really matter now if euro was a bad or good move. Regardless of what ever, current crisis means less money for everything in whole western Europe and it is not good news for F1. Could happen that more races goes to where money goes - to Asia, America and where else? Bernie takes F1 to anywhere he gets the best pay.

[mikhailv]

Does it really matter now if euro was a bad or good move. Regardless of what ever, current crisis means less money for everything in whole western Europe and it is not good news for F1. Could happen that more races goes to where money goes - to Asia, America and where else? Bernie takes F1 to anywhere he gets the best pay.

Its called a discussion lol. If we had individual currencies would we see more sponsorship and no crisis?

[MavF1]

The Euro isn't a joke and I think it's important that we keep it. I know the British have their issues with the EU, I personally find the UK government's categorical "No" to a financial transaction tax rather annoying. Understandable, since London is one of the biggest global financial centers, but not reasonable.
I agree with you though that any of the aforementioned countries folding from the Euro would create chaos and not only in Europe I assume. It's been four years now since the crisis in the US came to light and it started a chain of events that just triggers one crisis after another, it seems to be a never ending story.
Anyway, this is getting offtopic.

The euro is a failure because not every country is equal.

How can Greece have the same value of currency as that of germany for example? Exchange rates for different countries was there for a reason'; a reflection of each countries economy; how much one currency is worth to another based on its own performance. Thats why we always had £1 was nearly $2 for example, before the crisis.

One currency is a great idea on paper, but the fact is germany has a big industry, Greece doesnt for example. How can the two be considered equal when they are anything but? Fiscal equality and parity would be needed, meaning each country must be the same as the other for it to work. But it doesnt work because there is zero equality within the EU currency. It was a huge mistake having one currency because it has one value for all countries.

Off-Topic: show

And you think the creators of the Euro didn't know this?
The Euro was never about equality of economies within Europe, that wouldn't be possible anyway. Everyone knows that it isn't a project without flaws, politicians and economist have made mistakes during it's creation, surely.

However, let's not forget that the Euro is as much a political project as it is an economic one. And if you look at some of the most important political decisions regarding Europe (and Germany in particular) in the second half of the 20th century, they all had their flaws. Be it the Denazification of Germany after WWII, the execution of German reunification under chancellor Kohl or the creation of the Euro. Unfortunately neither of those political processes were flawless. But that doesn't mean that they weren't important.
The Euro was meant to simplify trade amongst European states, but it was also meant to be another step of Europe growing together, getting closer. The Brits always were sceptical of that and I'm not criticizing them for that in general, it's just how they are. This Euroscepticism is mainly caused by the economic-ideologial rift between the UK and Continental Europe, basically it's Anglo-Saxon economy vs. Social market economy.

Anyway, I'm far from an expert on that matter and it has been controversially discussed in Germany over the last two years if a return to the D-Mark was better for the country. I just think it wouldn't be, not for Germany and not for Europe. We're an export-driven economy, the currency appreciation would probably do great harm.
What is important is that the Euro isn't responsible for the crisis which we have now, but a combination of mismanagement of both the financial sector and the state in some countries. And people in Greece and Spain are already heavily suffering from the aftermath of their politicians' wrongdoings and the uncontrolled banking sector. It's a mess, but we have to get through that and keep the Euro imo.

Thanks for the links btw, I'll watch it, but I can already say that my stance on that won't change so quickly (as is yours probably), it's just that ideological gap I was referring to earlier. I just consider myself a pro-Europe, Social market economy type of guy. Cheers.