2010 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread

[swca92]

Has it been posted here that Lotus will get Renault engines and gearboxes next season??? That's in Autosport today.

[phil1993]

Has it been posted here that Lotus will get Renault engines and gearboxes next season??? That's in Autosport today.

Yeah, thats a strong rumour. Might also result in Petrov going to Lotus.

[François]

Spanish has been putting another rumour to circulate as they claim Massa and Kubica will swap their seats for next season.

Nonsense. Renault is a growing force that might soon be challenging for race wins, Kubica is becoming well-established there and I can't see why in the world he'd settle for playing second fiddle to Alonso. Nor would Alonso accept someone of Kubica's caliber as a teammate.

[saif]

Spanish has been putting another rumour to circulate as they claim Massa and Kubica will swap their seats for next season.

Nonsense. Renault is a growing force that might soon be challenging for race wins, Kubica is becoming well-established there and I can't see why in the world he'd settle for playing second fiddle to Alonso. Nor would Alonso accept someone of Kubica's caliber as a teammate.

Renault have denied all these rumors on their twitter:

Rumour mill in overdrive today with some creative stories on the web...
For the record, Renault are very happy with the Genii partnership, great visibility and a good relationship. No plans to change.
Oh, and has anybody seen Robert and Felipe standing next to each other? I’m not sure they’d fit in each other’s seats if they swapped… ;)

[Wolfie]

We have this Lex Hollo on MTV3 who writes hilarious and witty articles and I thought you might enjoy reading this one, he is like Finland's Leo Turrini

Sneaky F1-people
16.9.2010

If F1 wouldn't have the halo created by it's history and the puffy status created by money, then the whole insane puttering around would probably had been buried ages ago.

The World Council decided last week that they had no evidence backing up Ferrari using team orders in Hockenheim. There Felipe Massa was told even twice in the same sentence that he should understand that brother-Fernando behind him is faster than him. And Felipe understood because it didn't take many seconds before Alonso made a pure style passing.

After the race Ferrari got a fine of 100 000 dollars. Even though they didn't see that the team was guilty the fine was still valid. Interesting logic. Although when it comes to magnitude it was the same as stealing a lollipop from Jorma Ollila (rich man in Finland). The council's clear message to the F1-world seems to be: we don't like that, you shouldn't use team orders but that wasn't any team order because we have no evidence but still we don't quite like that kind of business so pay your fine even though the fine is ridiculously small.

FIA also mentioned in their justification that in the specific case Ferrari had a justified fear that the team mates would collide. Absolutely touching caretaking. I haven't cried this much since Minna got voted out from the BB-house. Or whoever it was.

When thinking about how much money is circulating in the F1-world one would assume that they could get more sneaky dudes to make up strategies. Maybe Massa's race engineer Rob Smedley really didn't think of anything else than "Fernando is faster than you" in the heat of Hockenheim's race.

I suggest to F1-teams, completely free of charge, an especially innovative code language for future similar situations. A1 could mean: go go go, you are in a hurry now and B2: sorry, let your mate pass you immediately in one way or another. To further confuse the big bugs the codes could be reversed in the next race. Although it might be that a more simpler sign language would be enough to fool them.

Now we are again living those times which will get the anti-fans of F1 to the barricades. Every tube is filled with more and more imaginary driver rumours. From the Finnish perspective the most seriocomical has been attaching Kimi Räikkönen to practically every possible and impossible sentences. When Renault's boss says that it looks like it's going to be a dry weather, it can nicely be connected to Räikkönen; if the boss thinks that tomorrow is more sunny than yesterday it cannot mean anything else than hiring Räikkönen. I mean the man is nothing but sunshine.

The same boss also spew out an extremely unambiguous comment about the current driver Vitali Petrov's situation:

“At this moment Vitali is our second driver and we try to do all we can so that we can secure his seat as our other driver. I doubt that he did enough in Monza to justify his seat next season.”

Translated it means exactly the following:
“The Russian still spins around here because his sponsors have brought us so much money. We are always interested in money but wonder if we could get this business swinged with Bernie so that Vitali would leave but the money would stay with us? Monza at the latest showed that Petrov's job is at most a bus driver somewhere in Ural.”

Lotus team's boss Mike Gascoyne on the other hand informed that Lotus isn't going to develop this year's car anymore. That's cool Mike but if you even have developed the car it sure hasn't been very strongly sensed from the sofa at home. Better luck next season.

F1 has wandered itself already ages ago into an uncontrolled ameba bigger than itself; more happens outside the sport than inside the sport. There is reason to actively give artificial respiration to this machinery because for example last weekend's race in Monza was again in it's boredome bloodcurling. Without the extremely refined rumour mill and the hulabaloo outside the tracks, F1 would probably not exist anymore. Even in it's current state the sport still interests amazingly many people. There's nothing bad in that, F1 is the traditional royal class which also deserves to be noticed through that as a sport. Yet it's clear that the sport could be made more interesting than what it is today. If there would be good will. And right people at right places. No inward heated plotting. No s*hit-talking pushers greedy for money. No weird and unclear regulations that are applied to the situation at hand. No this. No that.

F1 today is like Finland's Turku. There's nothing wrong with the city itself but the people....

[swca92]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86712

I might start a thread about this, the story above is basically that people in local government in Australia are fed up of paying the escalating fees Bernie forces them to pay for the "Privilege" of holding a GP. They're making increasing losses, and frankly I agree with those people that its ridiculous people are footing the bill for a motor race that makes a loss.

If you thought that the flow of races to Asia, the Far East and oli rich nations would stop soon, think again. Expect more of it in the future.

[JoostLamers]

McLaren product Nyck de Vries became World Champion in Karting last weekend

[mikhailv]

Do you know what else has really got my back up?

Renault. I used to support that team whole hearted, but that new management of lopez and bulls** (boullier) has really p*ssed me off to the point I no longer support them. Ignoring the criticisms that he said pat/alonso/flav were rubbish for renault, they now would rather have petrov who, lets not beat around the bush is rubbish over Kimi raikkonen.

'if we take raikkonen, we would have to rethink our marketing strategy' that line has f*cked me of massively. I use to believe in renaultsport that they were there to win and there to be the best but so they can sell cars in russia theyd keep a rubbish driver over a proven world champion and id go as far as to say one of the fastest drivers of the past 10 years, makes it ridiculous.

its right got my back up, because it just shows that the new renault isnt about winning, its about selling cars to russia. It'd be more impressive if not only did he get the team to sell cars, but achieve winning both championships twice running and get 19 victories and achieve a roll of 15 consecutive podiums.

They wont ever achieve that because Flavio and Pat are a million times better than the bulls** brigade that has took over renault. Kubica is so enthusiastic with renault he signed a one year deal, and a further 1 year deal correct? That says it all, especially when this superior management was begging for last years tv rights early because they didnt expect F1 to cost so much. Ridiculous.


RIP renault 02-09

[François]

Whoa there, calm down.

What Renault have achieved this year under Boullier's management is impressive. On a downwards spiral since late 2006, the banning of mass dampers and Michelin's withdrawal, they looked set for an annus horribilis in 2010; the Singapore scandal, the big changes in management structure and driver line-up, the sale to Genii Capital, all signs were pointing towards the disastrous times that lay ahead.

Instead of that, the team has seemingly risen from its ashes; Kubica's consistent and inspired driving and Petrov's promising flashes of brilliance have ensured that Renault's challenging Mercedes for 4th place in the constructor's championship (need I remind you that they finished a lowly 8th last year?). Before the start of the season, who would have bet a penny on them scoring three podiums? Against all odds, what looked like an eventual and inevitable withdrawal à la BMW or Toyota has turned into a secure and rather promising future. Praise Briatore/Symonds and diss Boullier all you like, you can't deny the facts.

Now, I hear your criticism. You seem to have been operating under the double delusion that 1) not ALL main teams are "there to win and to be the best" and 2) that manufacturers totally aren't in F1 to boost their road car sales. That's like Hamilton saying he goes to Singapore "to win". Jeez, who doesn't? Those are just empty words, at the end of the day everybody's doing their best with what they have.

Problem is, in Formula One, "what you have" is primarily a function of how much money you can invest in your cars and in your drivers. You'd be a fool to think otherwise. That is why a viable commercial strategy is crucial, as, even for top manufacturers like Renault, money doesn't grow on trees and you don't find the yearly hundreds of millions of dollars necessary to run an F1 team easily. But that is still not all: you have to find the right balance between what you spend on your car, and what you spend on the rest. An ordinary driver in a great car is as much of a waste as a two-time world champion in a 2009 Renault.

Now, Renault arguably have one of the best drivers of the field in Kubica, a certified race winner and potential world champion. You can be sure the guy will maximize the car's potential no matter what. The problem isn't to find a better driver than him, but to give him a car capable of winning races. For that you need money. Lots of it. Now, as a second driver, you have a promising young gun that 1) attracts huge sponsors and 2) while being quite decent (compare him to Yamamoto for instance) isn't going to dispute Kubica's n°1 status anytime soon.

Swap Petrov for Räikkönen. What have you got? 1) bye bye Russian sponsors (less money to develop the car); 2) a world champion's salary to pay (if you had any funds left at this point) and 3) potential rivalry between two good and relentless drivers (ask RBR how they feel about that. Also McLaren 2007). I can understand why you'd think twice before making that call. I know I would (think twice).


Bottom line: give them time. The results have improved significantly already (not to mention the car's livery). Did Renault start winning races and championships right away in 2002?

[iceman1]

I didn't expect McLaren to be 5th, both drivers have done a Good job to stay in the challenge so far.

Ferrari is superior when it comes to reliability

Turun Sanomat 21.9 2010 22:52:54

Drivers:

14 kisaa – max 834 laps:

1. Felipe Massa Ferrari 831 (99,6 %)

2. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 825 (98,9 %)

3. Mark Webber Red Bull 785 (94,1 %)

4. Michael Schumacher Mercedes 784 (94,0 %)

5. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 781 (93,7 %)

6. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 777 (91,2 %)

7. Robert Kubica Renault 751 (90,0 %)

7. Jaime Alguersuari Toro Rosso 751 (90,0 %)

9. Rubens Barrichello Williams 734 (88,0 %)

10. Lewis Hamilton McLaren 732 (87,8 %)

11. Jenson Button McLaren 728 (87,3 %)

12. Vitantonio Liuzzi Force India 725 (86,9 %)

13. Adrian Sutil Force India 724 (86,8 %)

14. Vitali Petroc Renault 713 (85,5 %)

15. Nico Hülkenberg Williams 680 (81,5 %)

16. Heikki Kovalainen Lotus 639 (76,6 5)

17. Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso 621 (74,5 %)

18. Jarno Trulli Lotus 593 (71,1 %)

19. Lucas di Grassi Virgin 568 (68,1 %)

20. Timo Glock Virgin 555 (66,6 %)

21. Pedro de la Rosa Sauber 535 (64,1 %)

22. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber 455 (54,6 %)

Teams:

Max 1668 laps:

1. Ferrari 1656 (99,3 %)

2. Red Bull 1566 (93,9 %)

3. Mercedes 1561 (93,6 %)

4. Renault 1464 (87,8 %)

5. McLaren 1460 (87,5 %)

6. Force India 1449 (86,9 %)

7. Williams 1414 (84,8 %)

8. Toro Rosso 1372 (82,3 %)

9. Lotus 1232 (73,9 %)

10. Hispania 1231 (73,8 %)

11. Virgin 1123 (67,3 %)

12. Sauber 990 (59,4 %)

Turun Sanomat

HEIKKI KULTA

[mikhailv]

Whoa there, calm down.

What Renault have achieved this year under Boullier's management is impressive. On a downwards spiral since late 2006, the banning of mass dampers and Michelin's withdrawal, they looked set for an annus horribilis in 2010; the Singapore scandal, the big changes in management structure and driver line-up, the sale to Genii Capital, all signs were pointing towards the disastrous times that lay ahead.

Instead of that, the team has seemingly risen from its ashes; Kubica's consistent and inspired driving and Petrov's promising flashes of brilliance have ensured that Renault's challenging Mercedes for 4th place in the constructor's championship (need I remind you that they finished a lowly 8th last year?). Before the start of the season, who would have bet a penny on them scoring three podiums? Against all odds, what looked like an eventual and inevitable withdrawal à la BMW or Toyota has turned into a secure and rather promising future. Praise Briatore/Symonds and diss Boullier all you like, you can't deny the facts.

Now, I hear your criticism. You seem to have been operating under the double delusion that 1) not ALL main teams are "there to win and to be the best" and 2) that manufacturers totally aren't in F1 to boost their road car sales. That's like Hamilton saying he goes to Singapore "to win". Jeez, who doesn't? Those are just empty words, at the end of the day everybody's doing their best with what they have.

Problem is, in Formula One, "what you have" is primarily a function of how much money you can invest in your cars and in your drivers. You'd be a fool to think otherwise. That is why a viable commercial strategy is crucial, as, even for top manufacturers like Renault, money doesn't grow on trees and you don't find the yearly hundreds of millions of dollars necessary to run an F1 team easily. But that is still not all: you have to find the right balance between what you spend on your car, and what you spend on the rest. An ordinary driver in a great car is as much of a waste as a two-time world champion in a 2009 Renault.

Now, Renault arguably have one of the best drivers of the field in Kubica, a certified race winner and potential world champion. You can be sure the guy will maximize the car's potential no matter what. The problem isn't to find a better driver than him, but to give him a car capable of winning races. For that you need money. Lots of it. Now, as a second driver, you have a promising young gun that 1) attracts huge sponsors and 2) while being quite decent (compare him to Yamamoto for instance) isn't going to dispute Kubica's n°1 status anytime soon.

Swap Petrov for Räikkönen. What have you got? 1) bye bye Russian sponsors (less money to develop the car); 2) a world champion's salary to pay (if you had any funds left at this point) and 3) potential rivalry between two good and relentless drivers (ask RBR how they feel about that. Also McLaren 2007). I can understand why you'd think twice before making that call. I know I would (think twice).


Bottom line: give them time. The results have improved significantly already (not to mention the car's livery). Did Renault start winning races and championships right away in 2002?

First off, I disagree with that. They were on a downward spiral in 2007, but in 2008 they started 1.2 seconds off, and were within 2 tenths by the end of the season. Renault had a staggering development charge in that year as proven by alonso outperform everyone in the second half of the year. Renault went wrong in 2009 for the same reasons ferrari and mclaren did; focusing on KERS. Renault was the first of the manufacturers to stop developing the car in june, before the british GP, it was that same car that got the podium in singapore, so the car that boullier has, was started under the slated previous management and was heavily influencing this years R30. The teams hasnt risen from no ashes as far as I can see. They have one great driver in kubica and he still isnt comitting long term, and yes you need sponsors to fund a front running car but to turn away a world champion just so you can sell cars and market renault is russia shows how much renault has changed. Ofcourse they marketed alonso out to high heaven in spain, Formula 1 as a sport fleeced him out too, because not only was it a new market, but by god he was fast and deffinitely a future world champion, Petrov? Hes buying his seat. renault are effectively saying that we are a one driver team, the other one is there to just sell stuff in russia and not win races. Thats how i see it. Renault took chances on young drivers, it didnt work out with kovy so the swapped him back for Alonso. Piquet, Grosjean and petrov, all rookies were rubbish in renault and rubbish for the renault F1 team. If you take kubica away next year (if you believe the ferrari rumours) your left with petrov and who else? Button wouldnt go back there, Nether would Alonso, or Vettel. I doubt webber would go there, so what champion material would take the renault seat?

Kimi wouldnt get a large salaray. hes been away and isnt worth the stupid money he was given. they paid alonso 8 million, so id say thats how much kimi should get. It just doesnt feel like Renault to me anymore. i dont like the new management, I dont like the fact that its not really renault anymore, its Genii capital. Pat symonds was a fantastic designer and innovator and he had done a hell of alot for renault and the team will miss him dearly. Its just renault doesnt feel right no more, not because Alonso has gone, but the peoples changed and it seems so has 'renaults' attitude. The way to win championships is to have the best drivers possible and give them the best car. But if Kubica is unwilling to commit and they have to keep a poor driver just for the money and to sell cars abroad, it shows that its more of a farce nowdays.

[LiamN]

Lotus have already given up their rights to use their current name and if this report is true they cannot use the Lotus name in any shape or form.

[iceman1]

Lotus have already given up their rights to use their current name and if this report is true they cannot use the Lotus name in any shape or form.

This is all about money.

[phil1993]

Its quite funny really because both are owned by Malaysia effectively. Proton own the Group Lotus name and Fernandes the 'Lotus Racing' name and wants to rename it Team Lotus. Its further complicated by the fact that since Fernandes had his F1 ambitions, Group Lotus have suddenly wanted to branch out into motorsport (in IRL, LMS etc) and Group Lotus & ART will link up in GP2 and there will be Team Air Asia as well, so there's gonna be 4 green & yellow cars in GP2 next year. Sniff sum it up quite well http://sniffpetrol.com/2010/09/29/lotus ... ver-lotus/

[iceman1]