Renault Race Fixing - ING terminate Renault deal

[Tom Vandenhove]

Off-Topic: show

Best Moderated message ever

Off-Topic: show

Why thank you ~ Phil

[shailf1]

http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/09/20...-of-crashgate/

Felipe Massa is the real loser of ‘crashgate’

‘Crashgate’ is unarguably the most despicable episode of cheating ever discovered in sport. The real loser of the sorry episode is Felipe Massa.

The Ferrari driver arrived in Singapore last season one point behind Lewis Hamilton, and with four races remaining Massa left seven points behind Hamilton, despite leading the race at the time of ‘crashgate’.

We now know from the testimony of Pat Symonds, the Renault Executive Director of Engineering that, prior to the race, he and Flavio Briatore, the Renault team manager, instructed their second driver, Nelson Piquet Junior, to deliberately crash. They specified that the crash take place on lap 13 and at corner 17 so that the other Renault driver, Fernando Alonso, would be given the best chance of winning the race.

The sting was that Alonso, starting from 15th place on the grid, was lightly fuelled and faster than the cars around him. He made up four places in 12 laps before refuelling.

After Piquet’s crash, the safety car was deployed for five laps, compacting the field and closing the pits. However, some teams running light fuel loads were forced into the pits for fuel and received a stop and go penalty as a result.

Massa was leading the race at the time of the accident, with Lewis Hamilton in second place. In the confusion that ensued, Massa and his third placed teammate Kimi Raikkonen entered the pits together. Massa left with the fuel hose still attached to his car and received a drive through penalty because of this mistake, ending any chance of him winning the race or finishing ahead of Hamilton.

By the time all cars had made their pit stops, Alonso was leading the race, and maintained this lead to the chequered flag. Hamilton finished 3rd and extended his points lead over Massa to seven points.

Hamilton eventually won the Formula 1 World Championship by one point.

There is no such thing as a safe, controllable accident in a Formula 1 car, and in particular on a street circuit. Despite this Briatore and Symonds asked Piquet to risk his life to win a car race.

Both owe Piquet a duty of care. Flavio Briatore was also Nelson Piquet Jr’s business manager.

I hope that every party seeks full recompense for the actions of these two desperate, misguided men.

[phil1993]

Hamilton: I am a worthy champion

Lewis Hamilton has hit out against those claiming that he would not have won the 2008 Formula 1 Drivers' World Championship had Felipe Massa not lost out in 'Singapore-gate' this time last year – insisting that he too was unfairly penalised on occasion by controversial decisions.

Hamilton narrowly defeated his Ferrari rival by just a single marker at the end of a nail-biting Brazilian Grand Prix finale at Interlagos last November, in which he snatched the fifth place he needed literally two corners from the chequered flag, thereby crushing Massa's dream of glory in front of his adoring partisan supporters on home turf.

However, Massa arguably lost ten points when a pit-stop error in Singapore saw him exit the pit-lane with the fuel rig still attached to his car, earning him a drive-through penalty and causing him to finish the sport's inaugural night race only 13th, some way outside of the points.

It has been suggested that had it not been for the safety car period prompted by a crash for the Renault of Nelsinho Piquet that now appears to have been deliberately staged, Massa – who was leading the grand prix by 4.5 seconds from Hamilton at the time – would not have encountered the problem he did, given that Ferrari would not have been under the pressure they were to make sure that the São Paulista retained his advantage with practically all of the drivers coming into the pits at once.

However, McLaren-Mercedes star Hamilton – who went on to become F1's youngest ever title-winner – stressed that had he left Singapore trailing Massa in the standings rather than seven points ahead as he did, he would have adopted a different strategy heading into the crucial final three grands prix in Japan, China and Brazil.

“I am a worthy world champion,” the 24-year-old British ace is quoted as having said by the News of the World. “I have got the number one on my car and I deserved it. I am extremely proud of my achievements since coming into F1. Getting in that car is the one thing I can do in my life that I know I am better at than most people. It is a great feeling to know that I can do it well and that it is widely respected and loved.

“I remember my race in Singapore last year. I was driving with one eye on the world championship and wasn't going to take too many risks; I was happy to finish on the podium. There are things that happened last year with penalties that affected my points – and I still think I won in Belgium. I think that was my race.

“When you are leading the championship, it is a different mindset to when you are chasing. I was just thinking about the championship in the remaining races and getting the points I needed to win the title. If I had needed wins I would have gone for them.”

[shailf1]

Hamilton: I am a worthy champion

Lewis Hamilton has hit out against those claiming that he would not have won the 2008 Formula 1 Drivers' World Championship had Felipe Massa not lost out in 'Singapore-gate' this time last year – insisting that he too was unfairly penalised on occasion by controversial decisions.

Hamilton narrowly defeated his Ferrari rival by just a single marker at the end of a nail-biting Brazilian Grand Prix finale at Interlagos last November, in which he snatched the fifth place he needed literally two corners from the chequered flag, thereby crushing Massa's dream of glory in front of his adoring partisan supporters on home turf.

However, Massa arguably lost ten points when a pit-stop error in Singapore saw him exit the pit-lane with the fuel rig still attached to his car, earning him a drive-through penalty and causing him to finish the sport's inaugural night race only 13th, some way outside of the points.

It has been suggested that had it not been for the safety car period prompted by a crash for the Renault of Nelsinho Piquet that now appears to have been deliberately staged, Massa – who was leading the grand prix by 4.5 seconds from Hamilton at the time – would not have encountered the problem he did, given that Ferrari would not have been under the pressure they were to make sure that the São Paulista retained his advantage with practically all of the drivers coming into the pits at once.

However, McLaren-Mercedes star Hamilton – who went on to become F1's youngest ever title-winner – stressed that had he left Singapore trailing Massa in the standings rather than seven points ahead as he did, he would have adopted a different strategy heading into the crucial final three grands prix in Japan, China and Brazil.

“I am a worthy world champion,” the 24-year-old British ace is quoted as having said by the News of the World. “I have got the number one on my car and I deserved it. I am extremely proud of my achievements since coming into F1. Getting in that car is the one thing I can do in my life that I know I am better at than most people. It is a great feeling to know that I can do it well and that it is widely respected and loved.

“I remember my race in Singapore last year. I was driving with one eye on the world championship and wasn't going to take too many risks; I was happy to finish on the podium. There are things that happened last year with penalties that affected my points – and I still think I won in Belgium. I think that was my race.

“When you are leading the championship, it is a different mindset to when you are chasing. I was just thinking about the championship in the remaining races and getting the points I needed to win the title. If I had needed wins I would have gone for them.”

I dont think he would have done anything different. In the start at Japan he did not act as if he had a lead, he was fighting with Kimi at the start. He would have done nothing different in China and in Brazil he would have never beaten Massa. Call it fanboysm but I dont think he could have done anything different.

[Sanredrose]

Alonso and Flavio to be questioned on Monday ...

http://planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5571504,00.html

[phil1993]

Ironically, tomorrow is World Peace Day

[Tom Vandenhove]

Tomorrow, I'm afraid it'll be 9/11 in F1... And no one can do something about it

[Totopupu]

The whole 2008 season was a scandal : how a cheater, blocker and cutter can have been world champion???

Felipe Massa was the best in 2008 and he will be tomorrow the new 2008 world champion!

[mod]We know you hate Lewis Hamilton, but despite that it is not clever to write groundless, insane and continuous ranting about them. If you hate him good, but this forum has Hamilton supports as well and they might not like that. You do not want to hear thing like that said to the drivers you support, do you?[/mod]

[shailf1]

The whole 2008 season was a scandal : how a cheater, blocker and cutter can have been world champion???

Felipe Massa was the best in 2008 and he will be tomorrow the new 2008 world champion!

looks unlikely but who knows..

[iceman1]

Tomorrow, I'm afraid it'll be 9/11 in F1... And no one can do something about it

who's Ben laden in F1 ?

The FIA had all the proof they needed

[Tom Vandenhove]

Tomorrow, I'm afraid it'll be 9/11 in F1... And no one can do something about it

who's Ben laden in F1 ?

Piquet

[mikhailv]

Off-Topic: show

The whole 2008 season was a scandal : how a cheater, blocker and cutter can have been world champion???

Felipe Massa was the best in 2008 and he will be tomorrow the new 2008 world champion!

[mod]We know you hate Lewis Hamilton, but despite that it is not clever to write groundless, insane and continuous ranting about them. If you hate him good, but this forum has Hamilton supports as well and they might not like that. You do not want to hear thing like that said to the drivers you support, do you?[/mod]

Rubbish. Fact is, Ferrari lost Massa his WDC with that pitstop. They left the fuel hose in, not Alonso, Not piquet, Not briatore, Symonds or Renault.

They ruined their chances.

And massa shouldnt have spun off in Malaysia out of his own pure mistake, and neither should he have crashed into DC in Australia.

He wasnt consistent enough at the start, which is why buttons STILL as of now the current leader of the 2009 championship, and he is the most undeserving person to BE at the front.

I wanted massa to be WDC last year, I dont like lewis, i feel ashamed to be british sometimes. But he won, no conspiracy c**p or whatever people say.

Massa ruined his chances himself, and with ferrari. I do agree, lewis didnt deserve the WDC, but in the end the one with the most points at the end of the year wins. Kimi didnt deserve the championship in 2007. It should have been either Alonso or Hamilton. But still. He got it.

[Tom Vandenhove]

[shailf1]

The whole 2008 season was a scandal : how a cheater, blocker and cutter can have been world champion???

Felipe Massa was the best in 2008 and he will be tomorrow the new 2008 world champion!

[mod]We know you hate Lewis Hamilton, but despite that it is not clever to write groundless, insane and continuous ranting about them. If you hate him good, but this forum has Hamilton supports as well and they might not like that. You do not want to hear thing like that said to the drivers you support, do you?[/mod]

Rubbish. Fact is, Ferrari lost Massa his WDC with that pitstop. They left the fuel hose in, not Alonso, Not piquet, Not briatore, Symonds or Renault.

They ruined their chances.

And massa shouldnt have spun off in Malaysia out of his own pure mistake, and neither should he have crashed into DC in Australia.

He wasnt consistent enough at the start, which is why buttons STILL as of now the current leader of the 2009 championship, and he is the most undeserving person to BE at the front.

I wanted massa to be WDC last year, I dont like lewis, i feel ashamed to be british sometimes. But he won, no conspiracy c**p or whatever people say.

Massa ruined his chances himself, and with ferrari. I do agree, lewis didnt deserve the WDC, but in the end the one with the most points at the end of the year wins. Kimi didnt deserve the championship in 2007. It should have been either Alonso or Hamilton. But still. He got it.

Off-Topic: show

People still insist that Massa crashed out at Austrailia , when he didn't . The car failed him . With the low numbers or cars that finished that race , he could have still gained some valuble points if not for the car breaking .There were 6 finishers so if massa would have kept on going then he would have gotten 2 points.

[blizzard]

Off-Topic: show

This is the new Spa 08 Topic

Ferrari fans fighting McLaren fans and vice versa.

Each side claiming that the other side started the trash talking

Seriously: We should have a Anti McLaren/Hamilton thread where the haters can hate and the McLaren/Hamilton fans have no permission to enter and a Anti Ferrari/Schumacher/Kimi thread where the Ferrari/Schumi/Kimi haters can voice their oppinion and frustration without getting disturbed by Ferrari/Schumi/Kimi fans.

This is a serious proposal, what do you think about it?

I think it would do a great deal for harmony on this forum and everything you always wanted to be said about your arch nemesis can be said without hurting people´s feelings.

In technical terms we could do it like this e.g. (I don´t know if that is technically possible):

The admins create 2 subforums - one for Ferrari fans and one for McLaren fans.
In the initial position everyone except the admins are banned from the forums
(Similar to the video section where you have to reach a certain number of posts).

You have to decide, whether you want to get permission to the Ferrari forum or the McLaren forum by a popup or button or whatever. You then get automatically banned from the other subforum, to ensure no one will disturb the other camp.
People who don´t want to join either forum simply don´t decide by clicking the button and therefore stay banned from both subforums.

I think it´s an idea which could work, we still have this big and great general F1 forum and all the subforums (multimedia etc.), but also 2 subforums where each fanbase can voice their oppinion without arguing with the other camp.

That way we might have a chance to keep the race threads clean and focus on discussing the actual race itself without hitting out at each other.
cheers

[mod]Can you pm the mods with suggestions please rather than clutter up this thread. Also, we do not want user hostility and are trying to keep F1Zone a friendly atmosphere for all and discussions about Spa 2008, Hamilton blah blah have gone on for long enough.[/mod]