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AzShadow
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by AzShadow » 19 Sep 2009, 06:58
phil1993 wrote:
And this is the worst cheating offence in the history of sport - let alone F1. They deliberately endangered the lives of Piquet, fans, marshalls, other drivers - just for some points... Disgraceful.
People are overreacting quite a bit imo. Saying that this is the worst cheating offence in F1 doesn't quite fit in the facts that some teams have got away with far more severe offences that have affected the entire championship like illegal parts run for most of the year and stolen 700 page manuals. Drivers have crashed into each other and endangered lives just to win the championship and no punishments have been imposed.
In this case we're talking about a race that didn't even have any effect on the championship. I never like cheating but I'm only trying to think of what FIA has done in the past and that's why it doesn't sound fair to kick Renault out of F1 or anything. Again if this was McLaren or Ferrari we're talking about, we'd already know what the outcome would be.
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hannibal_rising
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by hannibal_rising » 19 Sep 2009, 07:07
impatientinventor wrote:Possibly I'm missing something here but no one seems to be talking about potential jail time for Flav, Nelson and Pat in Singapore. Conspiracy to commit fraud is an extraditable offense in Singapore and can have a penalt of 14 years in Prison. The statute is applicable and all the evidence they need is already in the public record, is now uncontested and no one seems to be thinking about this. Can you imagine Flav's kid being a teenager before his dear old dad gets out of jail? Naaa.... No one makes it to 73 in a Hong Kong jail.
In fact, I've read something about it. There are many others problems that may come from this:
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 0609.shtml
AzShadow wrote:phil1993 wrote:
And this is the worst cheating offence in the history of sport - let alone F1. They deliberately endangered the lives of Piquet, fans, marshalls, other drivers - just for some points... Disgraceful.
People are overreacting quite a bit imo. Saying that this is the worst cheating offence in F1 doesn't quite fit in the facts that some teams have got away with far more severe offences that have affected the entire championship like illegal parts run for most of the year and stolen 700 page manuals.
Drivers have crashed into each other and endangered lives just to win the championship and no punishments have been imposed.
In this case we're talking about a race that didn't even have any effect on the championship. I never like cheating but I'm only trying to think of what FIA has done in the past and that's why it doesn't sound fair to kick Renault out of F1 or anything. Again if this was McLaren or Ferrari we're talking about, we'd already know what the outcome would be.
In fact, Schumacher did have a punishment for crashing into Villeneuve, and It was not the first time that he crashed someone to manage his position in the championship, but as far as I can remember is the only one, at least in recent times. And certainly there are more cases... Massa against Hamilton in Fuji, for example... and soooo many others..
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Zack
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by Zack » 19 Sep 2009, 07:13
hannibal_rising wrote:impatientinventor wrote:Possibly I'm missing something here but no one seems to be talking about potential jail time for Flav, Nelson and Pat in Singapore. Conspiracy to commit fraud is an extraditable offense in Singapore and can have a penalt of 14 years in Prison. The statute is applicable and all the evidence they need is already in the public record, is now uncontested and no one seems to be thinking about this. Can you imagine Flav's kid being a teenager before his dear old dad gets out of jail? Naaa.... No one makes it to 73 in a Hong Kong jail.
In fact, I've read something about it. There are many others problems that may come from this:
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 0609.shtml
AzShadow wrote:phil1993 wrote:
And this is the worst cheating offence in the history of sport - let alone F1. They deliberately endangered the lives of Piquet, fans, marshalls, other drivers - just for some points... Disgraceful.
People are overreacting quite a bit imo. Saying that this is the worst cheating offence in F1 doesn't quite fit in the facts that some teams have got away with far more severe offences that have affected the entire championship like illegal parts run for most of the year and stolen 700 page manuals.
Drivers have crashed into each other and endangered lives just to win the championship and no punishments have been imposed.
In this case we're talking about a race that didn't even have any effect on the championship. I never like cheating but I'm only trying to think of what FIA has done in the past and that's why it doesn't sound fair to kick Renault out of F1 or anything. Again if this was McLaren or Ferrari we're talking about, we'd already know what the outcome would be.
In fact, Schumacher did have a punishment for crashing into Villeneuve, and It was not the first time that he crashed someone to manage his position in the championship, but as far as I can remember is the only one, at least in recent times. And certainly there are more cases...
Massa against Hamilton in Fuji, for example... and soooo many others..
..it was Kubica ...jeez its was pure racing
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AzShadow
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by AzShadow » 19 Sep 2009, 07:58
hannibal_rising wrote:
In fact, Schumacher did have a punishment for crashing into Villeneuve, and It was not the first time that he crashed someone to manage his position in the championship, but as far as I can remember is the only one, at least in recent times. And certainly there are more cases... Massa against Hamilton in Fuji, for example... and soooo many others..
Schumacher's "punishment" was merely a formal one. It wasn't anything like stripping him off his victories or anything so he didn't lose anything. Again it was just a way for FIA to say "look we do care" when in fact they were too scared to do anything.
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hannibal_rising
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by hannibal_rising » 19 Sep 2009, 08:41
AzShadow wrote:hannibal_rising wrote:
In fact, Schumacher did have a punishment for crashing into Villeneuve, and It was not the first time that he crashed someone to manage his position in the championship, but as far as I can remember is the only one, at least in recent times. And certainly there are more cases... Massa against Hamilton in Fuji, for example... and soooo many others..
Schumacher's "punishment" was merely a formal one. It wasn't anything like stripping him off his victories or anything so he didn't lose anything. Again it was just a way for FIA to say "look we do care" when in fact they were too scared to do anything.
Download the 1997 season review... officially Schumacher is not classified... he could keep the victories and the points for his statistics, but officially he's not part of the 1997 championship.
Anyway, we are talking about Renault here...
I wonder if Renault may leave before Monday to avoid a monetary fine. If they receive something like the 100 million fine of McLaren... for sure they leave the F1.
I don't think FIA will be happy only doing things against Piquet, Briatore and Symmons.
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Totopupu
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by Totopupu » 19 Sep 2009, 09:44
In fact, Schumacher did have a punishment for crashing into Villeneuve, and It was not the first time that he crashed someone to manage his position in the championship, but as far as I can remember is the only one, at least in recent times. And certainly there are more cases... Massa against Hamilton in Fuji, for example... and soooo many others..
Schumacher didnt crash volontary villeneuve in 1997.
Schumacher was braking to enter in a corner, and he saw in his mirrors a blue and white car braking very late to overtake him.
Schumacher has had a stupid reflex and he turn at right directly.
But 1/2 seconds after, he understood the situation and he turn left.
I think its like in football when a player takes with his hands the ball. The player thinks why I made that : this was a stupid reflex!
[mod]Slightly off-topic mate!Try using the offtopic feature to discuss other topic.[/mod]
Jean Todt, Ross Brawn, Rory Byrne, Michael Schumacher = DREAM TEAM
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swca92
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by swca92 » 19 Sep 2009, 11:10
On Briatore and Symonds, I'm surprised there aren't criminal proceedings. Attempted murder, fraud, corruption are all crimes you could say they have committed.
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phil1993
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by phil1993 » 19 Sep 2009, 11:26
What have I done wrong?. Breathed? Maybe I should go to a forum where people appreciate me.
Spa 98? Cheating? How? Maybe you're the one who should read your own posts and try and make sense of them.
McLaren's spygate was serious, but never endangered any lives. That is the serious issue. Piquet crashed next to where 30,000 people were sat and quite frankly, I don't understand why he's being given immunity.
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hannibal_rising
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by hannibal_rising » 19 Sep 2009, 11:48
swca92 wrote:That's the stupidest F1 post I've ever seen.
I'm sure McLaren is related to S-11 too...
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Tom Vandenhove
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by Tom Vandenhove » 19 Sep 2009, 11:55
phil1993 wrote:Spa 98? Cheating? How? Maybe you're the one who should read your own posts and try and make sense of them.
McLaren's spygate was serious, but never endangered any lives. That is the serious issue. Piquet crashed next to where 30,000 people were sat and quite frankly, I don't understand why he's being given immunity.
I completely agree with phil. Why has he being given immunity ? He's the one who crashed it ... He should've say no and tell the FIA immediately after the meeting with Symonds
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shailf1
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by shailf1 » 19 Sep 2009, 11:58
Tom Vandenhove wrote:phil1993 wrote:Spa 98? Cheating? How? Maybe you're the one who should read your own posts and try and make sense of them.
McLaren's spygate was serious, but never endangered any lives. That is the serious issue. Piquet crashed next to where 30,000 people were sat and quite frankly, I don't understand why he's being given immunity.
I completely agree with phil. Why has he being given immunity ? He's the one who crashed it ... He should've say no and tell the FIA immediately after the meeting with Symonds
yeah but if you are in a situation where you job/life hangs in balance you do anything.
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Totopupu
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by Totopupu » 19 Sep 2009, 12:28
MCLAREN CHEAT IN SPA 1998 : they say to david coulthard to crash on schumi under rain.
This is like singapour 2008 but in spa 1998, this crash wasnt for the race victory but for the championship title and this crash wasnt against a wall but against a car and a driver
If schumacher had score some points in spa, he would have been champion in 1998.
But many F1 fans dont remember this because they all think that FIA is with Ferrari, altough FIA is with mclaren
Jean Todt, Ross Brawn, Rory Byrne, Michael Schumacher = DREAM TEAM
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phil1993
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by phil1993 » 19 Sep 2009, 12:33
Spa 1998 was different, McLaren didn't cheat, but it was an error of judgement from both Coulthard and Schumacher... DC maybe should have moved off of the racing line, but Michael knew DC was there and with a huge lead could have waited a while...
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Tom Vandenhove
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by Tom Vandenhove » 19 Sep 2009, 12:37
Totopupu wrote:MCLAREN CHEAT IN SPA 1998 : they say to david coulthard to crash on schumi under rain.
Schumi 1998 World Champion
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Zack
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by Zack » 19 Sep 2009, 12:48
[mod]Everyone refrain from making personal comments.
Keep it clean and avoid going off-topic.[/mod]