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Who will win the 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland?
Poll ended at 24 Jul 2010, 19:56
Lewis Hamilton 19%  19%  [ 12 ]
Jenson Button 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Mark Webber 23%  23%  [ 14 ]
Sebastian Vettel 26%  26%  [ 16 ]
Fernando Alonso 18%  18%  [ 11 ]
Nico Rosberg 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Robert Kubica 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Felipe Massa 5%  5%  [ 3 ]
Michael Schumacher 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Adrian Sutil 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Rubens Barrichello 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Other 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 62
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010, 14:45  
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swca92 wrote:
I wouldn't mind team orders that much if they disguised it well enough. But to do it so blatantly and make up rubbish about Massa making a mistake upshifting is insulting to F1 fans intelligence.

The obvious nature of it I find much worse than the use of team orders, because every team does it. McLaren did it this way, telling Button to not race with Hamilton by telling him he had to save the car. I don't mind that, it was done with intelligence. Ferrari did it with stupidity, it was about as sly as hiding an elephant in a phone box.


Well not racing your teammate is something understandable when you are going to make a 1-2. For example, Jordan in 98 at Spa, when they give RSC the order not to attack Hill ( and they clearly said it was a team order ). Or McLaren at the Istanbul GP this year. The best example is still the RedBull crash at the same GP :p . But here, Massa was going to win the GP but they forced him to let pass Alonso. The "sorry" said by a mechanic, probably Smedley, confirm surely that it was an order.
Again, if they ask Massa to let through Alonso because somebody else is infront and Alonso is actually blocked by Massa, it will be OK, it would be like at Indy 2006 when Alonso was forced to let pass Fisichella to let him battle with the Ferraris, but here it was nearly the same scenario as Austria 2001/2002 :<>: . Morever, Massa is not out of the race for the title yet!

It's a shame because after seeing a great Alonso yesterday in qualifying, today we've seen Alonso winning just because he couldn't overtake Massa in a legal way and Ferrari forced Massa to let Alonso through...
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010, 14:51  
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First of all, I would prefer no team orders at all in F1, since it declares itself as a sport. But let's be honest, unfortunately it's also a multi-million business and if a team has the possibility to win a championship by changing their driver's positions, they'll do it, no matter what team it is.
Now comes the big BUT: But there should be the right time and the right place to do it and it shouldn't happen to often!

Frankly I'm just disgusted with Ferrari and that whiner Alonso. When in the last 5 or 6 years did Alonso actually pass a teammate (excluding the ones who have been 1-2 sec slower) actively, that is without whining to his team so much that they ordered the other driver to move out of the way? Exactly.
It's logical that Domenicali doesn't admit team orders, 'cause there would definitely be a penalty as we all know. And furthermore it's clear that Domenicali would've wanted the manoeuvre to be a little bit less obvious, but Massa just did the right thing (with making it so obvious).
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010, 14:54  
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I can't imagine ferrari getting a harder penatly than a grid penatly for the next race...

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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010, 14:58  
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Ferrari called to stewards’ office
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Senior members of the Ferrari team have been instructed to head directly to Race Control at Hockenheim following the highly controversial overtake - indirectly requested by the team - involving Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa in the German Grand Prix.

On the first anniversary of his near-death experience in Hungary, Massa had led the 67-lap race until the 49th tour when, having been clearly told - via team radio - by Race Engineer Rob Smedley that Alonso was quicker and asked to confirm his receiving of the message, the Brazilian duly yielded upon exiting the hairpin.

Since 2003, team orders have been clearly outlawed in the sporting code following the extremely negative public reaction when the same team instructed Rubens Barrichello to hand the win to Michael Schumacher at the end of the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix.
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010, 15:03  
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antyk wrote:
I can't imagine ferrari getting a harder penatly than a grid penatly for the next race...

Litmus test for FIA President Jean Todt.

Bad day for racing two team orders on a day.

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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010, 15:04  
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Btw, as much as I like Massa, I just remember how he benifited from team orders in China '08 when Raikkönen had to let him past although Kimi actually wasn't even slower than Felipe at that stage. How did Ferrari explain this one back in the day?
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010, 15:13  
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MavF1 wrote:
Btw, as much as I like Massa, I just remember how he benifited from team orders in China '08 when Raikkönen had to let him past although Kimi actually wasn't even slower than Felipe at that stage. How did Ferrari explain this one back in the day?

Raikkonen was out of the race for the championship title. The same happened in Malaysia 99 when Schumi let pass Irvine. There was no controversy, the only funny thing was how Massa said he maid a beautiful move to pass Raikkonen :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010, 15:13  
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no order on the radio?
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010, 15:13  
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oups sorry hit the wrong button :confused:
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010, 15:17  
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The stewards are talking to Alonso & Massa atm
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010, 15:17  
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i hope that FIA do something about it.. it would be a shame it they didnt do anything about it
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010, 15:19  
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nothing will be done against the situation

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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010, 15:25  
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Now Alonso, Massa and Smedley have been summoned


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Both Felipe Massa and Fernando Alonso called to the stewards. #f1

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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010, 15:27  
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Massa and Alonso have now left the stewards room and we understand an announcement is imminent. #F1
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Großer Preis Santander von Deutschland
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010, 15:28  
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wtf was that? I have some nice words for alonso and smedley, but I think I'll be banned on the forum... hope they'll get a penalty

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