Does Alonso expect TEAM ORDERS?

BANANAGP · Post by **BANANAGP** » 28 May 2007, 01:25

Am I the only one paying attention to the press conferences?

alonso wrote: Alonso: The team will say to us something I think. We respect each other obviously and want the best for the other one, inside the team, and we want to beat our opponent that this year seems to be Ferrari and starting first and second at Monaco what we aim is to finish first and second because it is the most points and apart from that I don't think there are any problems between us and it should be just a normal race.

Hamilton: I agree.

"Best for the other" in Alonso-speak means "Lewis will not race me to the first corner".
They're both admitting that they will not to race each other at Monaco. What's there to argue?

ntr · Post by **ntr** » 28 May 2007, 09:17

well even if they did race, do you think any overtaking would have happened?...look at kimi vs wurz in the final laps...the ferrari is much faster than the williams yet he still couldn't overtake...and if lewis and fernando were racing overtaking would be impossible, they're in the same cars anyway

WDC · Post by **WDC** » 28 May 2007, 11:16

thats true, i dont unerstand what the ITV guys were saying, even if hamilton was 'allowed' to fight alonso for the lead, what would he have done?

this race has shown that alonso is number 1 driver for sure... no questios asked.

fingerfish · Post by **fingerfish** » 28 May 2007, 14:24

i'm not really fernando fan but i have to say when it comes to defensive driving that guy is really good. and on top of that it's monaco where overtaking is very much impossible.

BANANAGP · Post by **BANANAGP** » 28 May 2007, 19:22

alex wrote:well even if they did race, do you think any overtaking would have happened?...

My point exactly, we'll never know because the team agreed not to race.

look at kimi vs wurz in the final laps...the ferrari is much faster than the williams yet he still couldn't overtake...and if lewis and fernando were racing overtaking would be impossible, they're in the same cars anyway

Kimi drove crappy all weekend not a good example... Scott Speed managed to pass more people. So yes overtaking is possible and Hamilton might have been able to pull something off... we'll never know because - again- they agreed not to race.

Alonso learned alot from Schumacher, eh?

BANANAGP · Post by **BANANAGP** » 28 May 2007, 19:41

Thanks to OrangeDevil for uncovering this interview and conclusively proving team orders are the order of the day at McLaren.

*sigh*

orangedevil wrote: Ron Dennis admitted that the McLaren team decided in advance that Fernando Alonso would win the Monaco Grand Prix ahead of team-mate Lewis Hamilton. The McLaren boss said that it was frustrating having to make the call but claims that the possibility of the safety car coming out demanded a change of strategy.

"An outstanding result for the team. Both Fernando and Lewis drove so well and responded excellently to the team's wishes of bringing both cars home safely in what was a memorable one-two result and McLaren's 14th victory in the Principality", Dennis said.

"However there is some disappointment because of the different strategies we needed to follow to cope with a potential deployment of the Safety Car which has happened four times in the last five years. Consequently you virtually have to decide in advance which one of the team's two drivers will claim the victory".

Lewis Hamilton fought hard through out the race to allow his one-stop strategy to give him the lead only for his team to change him to a two stop programme.

"Once the first round of pitstops had taken place we reverted Lewis from a one-stop strategy to the faster two-stop strategy and at the same time slowed both cars down to conserve the brakes. As a team we would like to race but this circuit requires a disciplined approach and as a result we can leave Monte Carlo with the maximum amount of points", Dennis added.

ntr · Post by **ntr** » 28 May 2007, 22:38

BANANAGP wrote: Alonso learned alot from Schumacher, eh?

if this is true (that there were team orders)...is this anything to do with alonso's decisions?
he just drives...it's not like he's the one doing the changing the pitstop
what is he supposed to do? slow down so that lewis can overtake him so that it looks like lewis was not disadvantaged?

right now i think everything is just confused...we'll find out what everything reall means when they publish their findings...

BANANAGP · Post by **BANANAGP** » 28 May 2007, 23:03

alex wrote:
BANANAGP wrote: Alonso learned alot from Schumacher, eh?
if this is true (that there were team orders)...is this anything to do with alonso's decisions?
he just drives...it's not like he's the one doing the changing the pitstop
what is he supposed to do? slow down so that lewis can overtake him so that it looks like lewis was not disadvantaged?

right now i think everything is just confused...we'll find out what everything reall means when they publish their findings...

I agree with you it's not Alonso's fault. Like Schumacher in Austria, Alonso just benefited from a descision made by the team leadership.

What I don't understand is that instead of outraged fans, most race fans appear to be just shrugging their shoulders...

I got up early to see an extremely boring race only to find out later that the finish was concocted. I'm pissed!!

msrspeed · Post by **msrspeed** » 28 May 2007, 23:19

Hamilton is to competitive to help Alonso. Hamilton has been with McLaren since he was 12 years old and that I think is making a differences now. Let's wait for Alonso to fine tune work with McLaren and I thing he will open a gap in the championship with Hamilton.

ntr · Post by **ntr** » 28 May 2007, 23:25

BANANAGP wrote:
alex wrote:
BANANAGP wrote: Alonso learned alot from Schumacher, eh?
if this is true (that there were team orders)...is this anything to do with alonso's decisions?
he just drives...it's not like he's the one doing the changing the pitstop
what is he supposed to do? slow down so that lewis can overtake him so that it looks like lewis was not disadvantaged?

right now i think everything is just confused...we'll find out what everything reall means when they publish their findings...
I agree with you it's not Alonso's fault. Like Schumacher in Austria, Alonso just benefited from a descision made by the team leadership.

What I don't understand is that instead of outraged fans, most race fans appear to be just shrugging their shoulders...

I got up early to see an extremely boring race only to find out later that the finish was concocted. I'm pissed!!

yeah but the situation is different...alonso was ahead all the race in monaco, even if lewis were allowed to race it's not proven that he would certainly have finished ahead

in austria, rubens was ahead all race...but rubens slowed down...michael still took it though ..grabbed at the opportunity like a greedy man (any decent man would have slowed down and let the one who deserved it win..no?)

BANANAGP · Post by **BANANAGP** » 28 May 2007, 23:45

alex wrote: yeah but the situation is different...alonso was ahead all the race in monaco, even if lewis were allowed to race it's not proven that he would certainly have finished ahead

Of course it never will be proven - that's not my point. My point is that we were robbed of the opportunity to see him try!! Does that not upset you?

Specifically this is what i'm pissed off about:

Hamilton said he had between 5 and 6 laps more fuel than Alonso. On the same strategy Hamilton could have beaten Alonso to pole... applying Ron Dennis team rules he would have been the designated McLaren candidate to win monaco. We'll never know because they weren't allowed to race.
Hamilton was told to come in for the first stint much earlier than he should have... had he stayed out for the additional 3 laps or so he had in the tank he could have made it an interesting race... but, we never got to see him run light on fuel like we did Alonso (who got fastest lap while light on fuel). I hope the FIA investigates this because if proven, this is what may lead to charges of fraudulent behavior as it would be to the detriment of McLaren to bring Hamilton in with fuel still in his tank while leading.

alex wrote:in austria, rubens was ahead all race...but rubens slowed down...michael still took it though ..grabbed at the opportunity like a greedy man (any decent man would have slowed down and let the one who deserved it win..no?)

Fair enough, no comparison but disappointing none-the-less.

ntr · Post by **ntr** » 29 May 2007, 07:48

fernando has this to say on sunday

Better fuel preservation by Fernando Alonso in the opening part of the Monaco Grand Prix was a key factor in the Spaniard's second Monte Carlo win.

Lewis Hamilton had started the race with enough fuel to go five laps further than his McLaren teammate before he needed to make a stop, and the rookie said that he was surprised when the team called him in just three laps after Alonso.

"I was quite surprised, because I was fuelled to do five, nearly six laps longer than Fernando, and they stopped me with three laps," Hamilton said.

"So the time where I was really able to bridge the gap, I wasn't really given much time. I came in two or three laps after. So that's unfortunate, but that's the way it goes.

"I am looking forward to speaking to my engineers. I'm pretty sure the reason they would have pulled me in earlier than I have fuel for is because of the safety car.

"If the safety car had come out, it could really have changed the result. So it was better to get the pitstop done."

Alonso, however, said that he'd managed to even the fuel loads up a little during the race, preventing Hamilton from making up enough time to take the lead when the stops had been completed.

"I'd just like to maybe clarify the situation," Alonso said.

"I was two laps later than I should have been in the first stint because I saved fuel in the first part of the race, and the formation lap and things like that. They were telling me that maybe I was only three laps shorter than him."

so lewis was meant to come in on that lap but fernando preserved enough fuel to erode into lewis' advantage...
i don't know what to believe now...

...
well i welcome the fia investigation i don't feel mclaren are guilty
...but i don't understand why they are doing this...i think the lewis-mania has pressured them to do something...but why didn't they do it when other teams obviously used team orders so that both cars would finish...ferrari and renault did it all the time didn't they? why only now when lewis is in it :frown: what about other teams in other positions...i bet they have told their drivers to 'hold station' a few times...

BANANAGP · Post by **BANANAGP** » 29 May 2007, 14:29

alonso wrote:
"I was two laps later than I should have been in the first stint because I saved fuel in the first part of the race, and the formation lap and things like that. They were telling me that maybe I was only three laps shorter than him."

Oh yeah, he saved 3 whole laps of fuel on the formation lap and "things like that"!

Alonso and Ron Dennis clearly don't know when to keep their mouths shut.

Honestly, I don't think the FIA investigation will amount to much but anything that adds to the drama is welcome1

nelmesy16 · Post by **nelmesy16** » 29 May 2007, 14:36

well has this call been done yet?

BANANAGP · Post by **BANANAGP** » 29 May 2007, 15:41

nelmesy16 wrote:well has this call been done yet?

Nope... apparently Vodafone provides telefone services to the FIA...