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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2014, 22:09  
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Like I said, karma will do it's job. ;)

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 Post subject: 2014 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2014, 05:02  
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RB knew they were far off... gambled and played "worst case scenario..."

The result is still the same had they raced the standard fuel meter: 0 pts.
Except they got the fans a symbolic podium and lots of exposure... this is worth even more than coming in the last pt position which no one remembers or cares about.
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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2014, 10:42  
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Vlad-SRB wrote:
Like I said, karma will do it's job. ;)


How? What did the Mercedes QC do that was wrong? :huh: I think you need to check what the real meaning of karma is.... That is what happened to Red Bull for acting so obnoxiously at the Australian GP.

It's only ever someone elses fault with Red Bull. It's the Pirelli tyres, it's the Renault engine, it's the fuel-flow meter, it's the new rules. It's about time they got their comeuppance. Or as you say, karma... :zz:
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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2014, 09:14  
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Trying to cause your rivals to get even bigger punishment, when it's not really your concern (Mercedes should stick to their own business) rarely comes without a price. And this one is waiting to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2014, 09:23  
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Vlad-SRB wrote:
Trying to cause your rivals to get even bigger punishment, when it's not really your concern (Mercedes should stick to their own business) rarely comes without a price. And this one is waiting to happen.


Red Bull had a little something to say last year :O

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2014, 11:44  
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Vlad-SRB wrote:
Trying to cause your rivals to get even bigger punishment, when it's not really your concern (Mercedes should stick to their own business) rarely comes without a price. And this one is waiting to happen.


So then...

1) As Phil mentions, Red Bull did exactly the same last year when it came to the Pirelli / Mercedes tyre testing situation. Is it ok for Red Bull to do it but not anyone else?

2) As I previously mentioned, the Mercedes QC was not speaking on behalf of Mercedes only but was chosen to speak on behalf of all the F1 teams that were present.

With these items in mind, what's your point?
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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2014, 13:24  
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The point that Mercedes wanted to cheat with that illegal tire test, while Red Bull tried to get their points back, because of the crappy fuel flow meter that was actually confirmed to be malfunctioning.

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2014, 15:21  
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You really are ignoring what I'm writing aren't you? lol
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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2014, 15:53  
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Have you actually read through Red Bull's case for the appeal? In detail? The freakin' tool was malfunctioning and they prove it, but FIA doesn't want to make a public confessions about that.
Mercedes tried a sneaky move last season, it wasn't just Red Bull who opposed. I remember well that Ferrari was up there as well. And, if that QC was representing other F1 teams, how come we didn't hear any word similar to his from other teams?

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2014, 18:58  
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Vlad-SRB wrote:
Have you actually read through Red Bull's case for the appeal? In detail? The freakin' tool was malfunctioning and they prove it, but FIA doesn't want to make a public confessions about that.


Every team had issues with the fuel-flow meter in Melbourne. That is well known and that means you're wrong in saying the FIA doesn't want to make public confessions about that, because they did... The FIA and Gil Sensors issued statements in Melbourne to the effect that there were reliability issues and some unreliable readings. However both the FIA and Gil Sensors clarified that the readings accuracy were only out by a few % and they factored those details in to how they manage the team's actual fuel usage.

The FIA and Gil Sensors are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The unit is a brand new technology and because of the rules that the FIA have set (in terms of testing restrictions), there is no way for the FIA to test the unit on track before rolling it out for general use.

Every team had issues with the reliability of these units in Melbourne, yet every team listened to and followed the instruction of the FIA (and Gil Sensors) through the GP... apart from Red Bull.

So yes, I know the details of the appeal but not only that, I also fully understand the circumstances behind what happened.

Vlad-SRB wrote:
Mercedes tried a sneaky move last season, it wasn't just Red Bull who opposed. I remember well that Ferrari was up there as well.


That's your opinion but I'm afraid that is sensationalist and entirely unfounded. Sneaky? If it was sneaky then they would never have corroborated with the FIA and Pirelli to complete a test, as did Ferrari. That doesn't sound sneaky to me. If you'll remember, by the way the rules were written, Pirelli had to offer a test to every team. Which they did. Only Mercedes and Ferrari said yes.

Vlad-SRB wrote:
And, if that QC was representing other F1 teams, how come we didn't hear any word similar to his from other teams?


You're misinterpreting my words, either accidentally or intentionally.

Other teams were present at the hearing. The QC was chosen to speak on-behalf of all of those teams, instead of each and every team having their QC be interviewed by the media and release separate statements.

At no point whatsoever did I say, nor was the article saying, that this was only Mercedes asking the FIA to punish Red Bull further. You are choosing to twist the article to suit your own negative agenda. If it was the Williams QC, or the Force India QC I doubt you'd be attempting to make this point.

Let's also be clear that Red Bull's punishment was not increased because they were open throughout the case to say they intentionally chose not to use the readings from the fuel-flow meter even though the FIA asked them to. Mercedes in 2013 were only punished in the manner they were because they co-operated with the proceedings and were very open and clear about why they accepted the test.

So with all this in mind, what's your point?
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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2014, 23:35  
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I think the best thing would be for two of us to talk this out in a nice bar with a quality beer. :D
I understand your points very well, but we just don't share the same opinion. This doesn't mean I didn't enjoy our conversation here.
And yes, remember that for Pirelli mid season tire test 2013 cars weren't allowed. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2014, 00:05  
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Vlad-SRB wrote:
I think the best thing would be for two of us to talk this out in a nice bar with a quality beer. :D
I understand your points very well, but we just don't share the same opinion. This doesn't mean I didn't enjoy our conversation here.
And yes, remember that for Pirelli mid season tire test 2013 cars weren't allowed. ;)


That's a great idea, as long as you buy the first round :p

But with respect to the tyre tests, yes you're right. They weren't allowed. That was unless Pirelli (and the teams) met certain circumstances. If those circumstances were met then a test was allowed. Those were met in the case of Mercedes (and Ferrari). It's just that Pirelli, Mercedes and the FIA didn't handle the situation very well in public.

But don't forget, Pirelli changed the construction of their tyre mid-2013. That change suited Red Bull more than anyone else. And it just happened to be that Red Bull before and after the Mercedes test were campaigning for a change in tyre construction.
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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2014, 17:18  
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Mercedes wanted Red Bull banned for three races
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... web%29.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2014, 17:21  
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Do my words sound more logical now? :D

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2014, 17:36  
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Ha! I stand corrected Vlad
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