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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2013-14
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2013, 08:59  
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mikhailv wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
I still don't get the 'Kimi loses motivation' argument. It's a total myth.


Explain his dips in form then phil? he has races where he is invisible, oblivious, off the pace. Just nowhere.

He's been very consistent this year.
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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2013-14
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2013, 08:59  
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mikhailv wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
I still don't get the 'Kimi loses motivation' argument. It's a total myth.


Explain his dips in form then phil? he has races where he is invisible, oblivious, off the pace. Just nowhere.


Which races?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2013-14
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2013, 10:21  
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phil1993 wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
I still don't get the 'Kimi loses motivation' argument. It's a total myth.


Explain his dips in form then phil? he has races where he is invisible, oblivious, off the pace. Just nowhere.


Which races?


Majority of 2006, half of 2008. Half of 2009, A few in 2004. Then you get his average races like Monaco, canada and singapore last year. Then you get the races where he didnt have the b*** to make the crucial moves like Bahrain, hungary, Valencia. This year he started supreme, then he was off in china and monaco with stupid moves blaming Perez. Malaysia and Canada this year were poor. Germany and Hungary Grosjean has been the better driver of the two.
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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2013-14
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2013, 10:22  
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Joey Zyla wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
I still don't get the 'Kimi loses motivation' argument. It's a total myth.


Explain his dips in form then phil? he has races where he is invisible, oblivious, off the pace. Just nowhere.

He's been very consistent this year.


Doesnt mean he hasnt made mistakes or been lesser than his teammate. Still second only to Vettel.
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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2013-14
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2013, 10:29  
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mikhailv wrote:
Majority of 2006, half of 2008. Half of 2009, A few in 2004. Then you get his average races like Monaco, canada and singapore last year. Then you get the races where he didnt have the b*** to make the crucial moves like Bahrain, hungary, Valencia. This year he started supreme, then he was off in china and monaco with stupid moves blaming Perez. Malaysia and Canada this year were poor. Germany and Hungary Grosjean has been the better driver of the two.


2006 - Easily beat Montoya, de La Rosa. The MP4-21 didn't have the pace but he still took a few poles. 2008 was a strange season - there was a lot of politics between Raikkonen/di Montezemolo. The feeling is that Massa was favoured and that Ferrari was reluctant to make the changes Kimi wanted. He struggled with the set-up of the car and it affected his qualifying pace. This article - obviously in favour of Kimi - explains it well: http://f1bias.com/2012/04/05/truth-abou ... nder-2008/

2009 the F60 was awful, but Massa was slightly better at the start of the year. His Spa drive was still utterly mega though. Even after he knew he was out he was still giving it 100%. 2004? I thought he was pretty good that year, considering the car broke down seemingly all the time.

You're confusing motivation with mistakes. In Malaysia the E21 sucked in the rain, but even so Kimi slid wide once or twice. That's a mistake, not being demotivated. Monaco wasn't Kimi's fault at all. Canada was poor again because the E21 is a poor car in low grip - Grosjean was only 13th. Grosjean was the better of the two in Germany, not so sure about Hungary. Different strategies means comparison is difficult.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2013-14
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2013, 10:39  
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phil1993 wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
Majority of 2006, half of 2008. Half of 2009, A few in 2004. Then you get his average races like Monaco, canada and singapore last year. Then you get the races where he didnt have the b*** to make the crucial moves like Bahrain, hungary, Valencia. This year he started supreme, then he was off in china and monaco with stupid moves blaming Perez. Malaysia and Canada this year were poor. Germany and Hungary Grosjean has been the better driver of the two.


2006 - Easily beat Montoya, de La Rosa. The MP4-21 didn't have the pace but he still took a few poles. 2008 was a strange season - there was a lot of politics between Raikkonen/di Montezemolo. The feeling is that Massa was favoured and that Ferrari was reluctant to make the changes Kimi wanted. He struggled with the set-up of the car and it affected his qualifying pace. This article - obviously in favour of Kimi - explains it well: http://f1bias.com/2012/04/05/truth-abou ... nder-2008/

2009 the F60 was awful, but Massa was slightly better at the start of the year. His Spa drive was still utterly mega though. Even after he knew he was out he was still giving it 100%. 2004? I thought he was pretty good that year, considering the car broke down seemingly all the time.

You're confusing motivation with mistakes. In Malaysia the E21 sucked in the rain, but even so Kimi slid wide once or twice. That's a mistake, not being demotivated. Monaco wasn't Kimi's fault at all. Canada was poor again because the E21 is a poor car in low grip - Grosjean was only 13th. Grosjean was the better of the two in Germany, not so sure about Hungary. Different strategies means comparison is difficult.

Exactly. Kimi's "bad" races this year (Monaco, Canada, and to some extent Malaysia) were no fault of his own.
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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2013-14
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2013, 10:48  
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I wouldn't go that far. He's not been perfect. Malaysia he was beaten by his team-mate purely on merit. I disagree he's demotivated, but he's not always got everything out the car this season. The last 2 races for example, Grosjean has been faster. If Kimi qualified better he might have been able to win in Hungary. Monaco is another one, Grosjean showed (between crashes) there was more pace in that car than Kimi was getting out of it.

His strength has been his consistency and lack of mistakes.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2013-14
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2013, 10:50  
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Yeah, I agree with that James. Some of the Kimi 'hustle' seemed to disappear when he joined Ferrari. It was as if his driving style changed - I think he's 2/3 tenths slower than when he was at his peak, but the compromise of that is he's a slightly better race driver. He's just not demotivated!

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2013-14
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2013, 11:10  
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Joey Zyla wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
Majority of 2006, half of 2008. Half of 2009, A few in 2004. Then you get his average races like Monaco, canada and singapore last year. Then you get the races where he didnt have the b*** to make the crucial moves like Bahrain, hungary, Valencia. This year he started supreme, then he was off in china and monaco with stupid moves blaming Perez. Malaysia and Canada this year were poor. Germany and Hungary Grosjean has been the better driver of the two.


2006 - Easily beat Montoya, de La Rosa. The MP4-21 didn't have the pace but he still took a few poles. 2008 was a strange season - there was a lot of politics between Raikkonen/di Montezemolo. The feeling is that Massa was favoured and that Ferrari was reluctant to make the changes Kimi wanted. He struggled with the set-up of the car and it affected his qualifying pace. This article - obviously in favour of Kimi - explains it well: http://f1bias.com/2012/04/05/truth-abou ... nder-2008/

2009 the F60 was awful, but Massa was slightly better at the start of the year. His Spa drive was still utterly mega though. Even after he knew he was out he was still giving it 100%. 2004? I thought he was pretty good that year, considering the car broke down seemingly all the time.

You're confusing motivation with mistakes. In Malaysia the E21 sucked in the rain, but even so Kimi slid wide once or twice. That's a mistake, not being demotivated. Monaco wasn't Kimi's fault at all. Canada was poor again because the E21 is a poor car in low grip - Grosjean was only 13th. Grosjean was the better of the two in Germany, not so sure about Hungary. Different strategies means comparison is difficult.

Exactly. Kimi's "bad" races this year (Monaco, Canada, and to some extent Malaysia) were no fault of his own.


Yes they were.

Just because he beat Montoya who was sacked and De La Rosa who hadnt drove in competative racing for a few years, still doesnt mean that he wasnt performing at the level he shouldve done. Kimi 2008 was hal politics, half kimi not being bothered. If it was struggling with set-up then that means kimi isn't adaptable which we know is complete bull; he is very adaptable. Spa was great but he was still below par in comparison to Felipe.

Im not confusing mistakes and motivation; the car had poor grip but he was still out performed by Grosjean in an older spec car. If Monaco wasn't kimi's fault then China was and therefore Kimi shouldve gotten a penalty. Hungary Grosjean had better qualifying and race pace but was sacrificed for kimi to fall flat again.

I think like you said, Kimi's hustle disappeared because I think he was overdriving on many occasions. Germany 2005 is a case of that, he was overpushing the car, flat spotted and the rest is history. But the problem is, Kimi has become lapsy in wheel-to-wheel IMO since coming from Rally. He doesnt go for gaps anymore, he hesitates now in his attacking and some of his defence is really lapsy and poorly judged.

I believe he does get demotivated because ever driver gets demotivated at one point. Alonso is right now, and I think kimi is getting demotivated with Lotus too.
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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2013-14
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 09:47  
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Finnish media is reporting that Kimi is going to Ferrari and Alonso to Red Bull.

I'm lost and confused but would like to see him in red again!
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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2013-14
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 09:49  
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iceman1 wrote:
Finnish media is reporting that Kimi is going to Ferrari and Alonso to Red Bull.

I'm lost and confused but would like to see him in red again!


I think that would be a lose-lose situation for everyone really.... I mean, I dont think Kimi would achieve anything at Ferrari just like Alonso isn't. He could cement his reputation in a bad ferrari but... Well for Kimi its a gain, Lotus arent moving up, theyre in the s***.

Infact screw it. id love it to happen though I HATE Redbull.
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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2013-14
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 09:55  
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Alonso thinks it's better beating Vettel in the same car and win the championship, rather than fighting with Kimi for nothing :lol:

mikhailv wrote:
Infact screw it. id love it to happen though I HATE Redbull.

I hope it happens. I want Alonso to destroy Vettel :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2013-14
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 10:03  
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iceman1 wrote:
Alonso thinks it's better beating Vettel in the same car and win the championship, rather than fighting with Kimi for nothing :lol:

mikhailv wrote:
Infact screw it. id love it to happen though I HATE Redbull.

I hope it happens. I want Alonso to destroy Vettel :lol:


Thats my thought pattern. Webber was capable in 2010 but faded since then. Accident affect him like Massa?

But yes, Alonso and Hamilton would smash vettel. I think Kimi would struggle because he isn't always on it, and the lack of consistently living F1 in the simulator would harm him; to beat drivers like Alonso and Vettel and Hamilton consistently you have to live like they live; Formula 1 and nothing else. Simulator, meetings, simulator, PR, simulator, meetings, Simulator etc etc.

Thats why Kimi's best days were mclaren; they kept a tight leash on him.
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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2013-14
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 10:38  
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iceman1 wrote:
Alonso thinks it's better beating Vettel in the same car and win the championship, rather than fighting with Kimi for nothing :lol:

mikhailv wrote:
Infact screw it. id love it to happen though I HATE Redbull.

I hope it happens. I want Alonso to destroy Vettel :lol:

Too bad for you then.
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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2013-14
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 10:53  
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This is going to be so underwhelming when Red Bull just promotes Ricciardo.

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