Young Driver Test 2013

[mikhailv]

oh! I thought it had to be friday in which they could use race drivers as that is the 2013 compound test.

Also Max Chilton is testing for Marussia. I'm not sure whether you consider him as an F1 driver

Is that the bloke out of Touring Cars? Oh thats his semi-successful brother Tom ;D

[donald29]

Wolff says she's proved her worth with that test, because she was only 0.4s off Daniel Juncadella. I'm sorry, but that's quite a big gap. He's an inexperienced driver with little F1 running, and 0.4s is bigger than the average gap between Alonso and Massa or even Maldonado and Senna last year which was enough for Senna to be dropped.

Interesting also that Brundle says this test has shown F1 cars are too easy to drive approaching the limit... He may have a point. There are probably lots of drivers who could be 0.4s off a target time, but finding that last 0.4s is bloody difficult and not everyone can. Will Buxton wrote a blog on an F4 test he did. He was 20 seconds off Jolyon Palmer's pace but soon was able to get the gap down to 4 seconds. Getting it much smaller than that though and finding the last little bit, that's the really difficult bit.

[dimitris]

Susie's main objective is to show the world that women can be fast enough to be in F1, and she pretty much shows this is certainly possible. Even if she isn't fast enough to warrant a drive. At least she's paving the way for someone who does.

[Treacle]

Susie's main objective is to show the world that women can be fast enough to be in F1, and she pretty much shows this is certainly possible. Even if she isn't fast enough to warrant a drive. At least she's paving the way for someone who does.

Unpopular opinion: I don't want women driving in F1.
It's not about not having the skills for it, because they can be as fast and as good as men. But it just doesn't feel right...

[François]

That's going to sound sexist unless you back it up with some solid points!

[tderias]

That's going to sound sexist unless you back it up with some solid points!

Coming from a female I doubt that's the case

[tderias]

I don't mind a female driver. But I must say if David Croft starts saying stuff like 'down on her inside goes Maldonado', or 'its always nice to see a woman on pole', then things will get really out of hand

[Treacle]

Susie Wolff wasn’t bad in the YDT, and according to SkySports she was the biggest surprise in the field. In the end she impressed the most people. This surprises me, since she had the 23rd best time out of 33. I know you can’t really compare the three different days and there were current drivers testing as well. But even if I disregard these circumstances Susie only set the 5th best time on Friday (out of 9, since I don’t count current drivers). So why is she the one who was the most impressive? Is it because they expected her at the end of the grid based on her DTM results? Or is it because the lap time of 1:35.093 is pretty good for someone who is not really used to single-seaters?

Then we had María de Villota who had an awful crash the first time she tested for Marussia, which was caused by a driver mistake…

What’s common in them? Well, first off they were both in their thirties when they got the drive. It doesn’t seem important at first glance, but it is something to reflect on. Webber is considered old with his 36 years, and there are even talks about Button, Massa and Alonso to retire in a couple of years, because they are getting old. So we experience the whole grid getting younger (look at the prospect of Sirotkin securing a drive), yet the only two women who got a chance in F1 in the past 20 years are over 30. Also, we shouldn’t forget that Susie Wolff is the wife of Toto Wolff, while María de Villota is the daughter of Emilio de Villota (not that he was an exceptional driver, but still).
This doesn’t necessarily mean anything, since we had Bruno Senna, and still have Nico Rosberg on the grid. Not to mention Nicolas Prost and Kevin Magnussen, who just took part in the YDT…

If there really is a need for women driving in F1, then give a chance to someone who has proved her skills in the feeder series. If Beitske Visser keeps up the good job she did in karting, then she could be a good candidate.

What people seem to forget is that there were female drivers in F1. Lella Lombardi was racing in a relatively good car. She even scored half a point in 1975, though that Spanish GP is more memorable for Stommelen’s crash… So there is nothing that prevents women from taking part in F1, there is no rule that says “men only”.
It just happens that motorsports are more suited to men. It could be because generally they are more fearless, more daring, think less about “what happens if”, etc… Also, their bodies withstand more pressure, they are physically more fit and they have more stamina. It takes a lot more training for women to reach that physical level, if ever.

I emphasize this is generally the case. I don’t say that if there is a great talent she shouldn’t be allowed to race, just because of her gender. But giving test opportunities to women who are not experienced in single-seaters just to prove that there is no gender discrimination in Formula 1 is not good either. It feels like a strained attempt to show the world that men and women are equal in everything. (Which is BS, if you ask me…)

So call me sexist or anything, but that won’t change the fact that I’m not too fond of female drivers in F1 (or any other series for that matter). In history there was never a race won by a woman in F1, NASCAR, or Indy 500.

TL;DR: I guess the best solid point is the physical differences between women and men.

[François]

Now we can have a discussion!

First off, your opinion looks much more balanced than I thought based on your previous post - not to be condescending, just saying I'm not going to disagree with you as much as expected.

I would agree that whatever Susie Wolff or Maria de Villota may have achieved, it's a case of too little, too late. Especially in the case of Susie, you'd expect a professional racing driver with significant DTM experience to be able to handle an F1 car. However, while her time wasn't spectacular, it probably wasn't too far off the pace off the Williams car at the moment - and I guess that's what impressed onlookers the most, because they expected her to be terrible. Let's face it, she hasn't achieved much in DTM except for hanging around. Hasn't she had another F1 test before where she was miles off the pace? And, on top of that, doesn't she owe her husband her position at Williams? Would she have had that chance based on talent alone? Certainly not. Yet, she held her ground and produced a respectable performance.

I have to disagree with you when you imply that the test opportunity was given to her in order "to prove that there is on gender discrimination in Formula 1". Nobody's trying to prove that, except Susie herself; it's just fabulous publicity for Williams and F1, and that's all there is behind it. Nobody's trying to make the sport less sexist on moral grounds; the only aim is to make it more appealing and marketable for female audiences (with uncertain results, it seems ). Nobody's saying that there SHOULD absolutely be female drivers in F1, but some (me included) would LIKE to see it, because it would be something different and interesting. It would feel like a welcome challenge to the established hierarchy, and possibly open new perspectives for the sport's future.

As for physical differences, I see your point but I'd like to say that they are not as relevant in motorsport as in other sports. A woman who has trained herself to be fit enough to withstand a race distance (and we know that is possible) won't be at a disadvantage against male drivers. We can all agree it may be harder (much harder) for women to attain such a fitness level, but some have done it before and will do it again.

Finally, why not mention Danica Patrick? She may not have won the Indy 500 but she finished 3rd in 2009 and has five other top-ten finishes to her name - that's a record that some male drivers would envy. As for her IndyCar series results, she clinched 3 poles, 1 victory and 6 podiums. The physical demands in that series are enormous, yet she is coping - and several other female drivers are, though none of them have achieved that sort of results. All the credit to Danica for overcoming the hurdles she must have faced - but her example shows the extent of what is possible, and why could that not happen in F1 someday? Why would that not feel right?

[mikhailv]

My problem with women in F1 isn't about gender or bias, I dont care about gender. The thing is whether they are capable, whether they can have a skill capable of fighting in F1 competatively. Can they maintain a physical fitness to last a full race? Do they have the same reactions or skill as a man? It does sound incredibly sexist but its genuine questions. It doesnt seem asif women drivers for F1 have the reactions, abilities, skills, in-car assessment, feeling or endurance of that a male has.

The other thing is physical fitness. The guys in F1 are mostly like utter god damn bricks. Have you seen Alonso's twitter? Jesus christ theres pretty much 0% body fat anywhere, its all pure muscle. I dont see any woman outside body builders who could match that at all, and its the physical demands in F1 that are pivitol. Women drivers always appear to be femenine which is great, but they dont seem to have the muscular structure and training the guys have.

I just dont see a woman as being as committed to the F1 regime as I would see a guy. This might sound abit sexist, but I've always seen motorsport as a more male-orientated sport. You dont really see many genuine female fans. Often theyre tagging along with their obsessed partner and taking their kids.

Its abit unfair to tarnish ALL female drivers because of Wolff and Villota. I mean lets be honest Wolff is there because of her husband, she has always been an average driver and would never have gotten a first look at a car let alone a second or a test drive. Villota similarly had a random former F1 driver-father, drove some lower categories and for the money/buzz she would generate for Marussia; got a test.

Its harsh to say but women in F1 are merely marketing/PR tools for the ultimate male fantasy. I see danica patrick in the exact same light. I mean shes had 1 indy car win and 1 nascar win. That makes her the most succesful female Indycar driver and nascar driver.

Kyle Petty pretty much summed danica and I dare say most female drivers up;

''Lots of drivers can drive fast, but very few drivers can race.' Danica has been the perfect example of somebody who can qualify better than what she runs. She can go fast, but she can't race. I think she's come a long way, but she's still not a race car driver. And I don't think she's ever going to be a race car driver''

[François]

Oh well. If Danica "can't race", then I'm afraid lots of established male drivers have the same problem.

[mikhailv]

Oh well. If Danica "can't race", then I'm afraid lots of established male drivers have the same problem.

Yup, theres plenty of c**p male racers. But it doesn't change the fact danica is nothing but a PR/Marketing ploy and is still pretty average.

[Treacle]

Nobody's trying to make the sport less sexist on moral grounds; the only aim is to make it more appealing and marketable for female audiences (with uncertain results, it seems ).

I'll be honest, I really don't see how female drivers would make the sport more appealing for women. Most women are not interested in cars or motorsports. If I tried to talk to my best friend about F1, all she could contribute to the topic is "Oh, the one with the cute smile, right?" or "Yeah, his eyebrows are funny". Since the female audience can't identify themselves with women who are interested in cars, but can find the male drivers cute and handsome, I'd say male drivers make the sport more appealing for women. And following this logic female drivers would make the sport more appealing for males.

As for physical differences, I see your point but I'd like to say that they are not as relevant in motorsport as in other sports. A woman who has trained herself to be fit enough to withstand a race distance (and we know that is possible) won't be at a disadvantage against male drivers. We can all agree it may be harder (much harder) for women to attain such a fitness level, but some have done it before and will do it again.

Actually, I think it still matters quite a lot. If physical condition wasn't relevant, then the drivers wouldn't train so much.
You don't see women and men compete against each other in the Olympics either. It wouldn't be fair, since women won't ever have the same amount of muscle/body mass... It's not only about withstanding the race distance once, but 20 or so times a year + the free practices. (Not to mention that jet-lag screws up the female body a lot more because of the hormones.) I do believe racing in F1 would be harder on women.

Finally, why not mention Danica Patrick?

Sorry, I'm not really familiar with her work/results...

[tderias]

Nobody's trying to make the sport less sexist on moral grounds; the only aim is to make it more appealing and marketable for female audiences (with uncertain results, it seems ).

I'll be honest, I really don't see how female drivers would make the sport more appealing for women. Most women are not interested in cars or motorsports. If I tried to talk to my best friend about F1, all she could contribute to the topic is "Oh, the one with the cute smile, right?" or "Yeah, his eyebrows are funny". Since the female audience can't identify themselves with women who are interested in cars, but can find the male drivers cute and handsome, I'd say male drivers make the sport more appealing for women. And following this logic female drivers would make the sport more appealing for males.

This is spot on. I think the majority of female F1 fans are more into the drivers' attraction than the sport itself, so female drivers won't be attracting a lot of women.

"Yeah, his eyebrows are funny"

What people seem to forget is that there were female drivers in F1.

And there still is. Come on people, we still got Nico Rosberg...

[mikhailv]

Britney is clearly hermaphrodite.