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 Post subject: Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2013, 10:29  
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Iceman1 getting defensive of his boy again...
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 Post subject: Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2013, 11:17  
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iceman1 wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
iceman1 wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
I wouldnt sign Kimi. I always thought the guy was pretty equal to Alonso, but he just wont make his own decisions in the race. Instead of reading the track and believing in himself and his skills, he just follows what the team says. He suspects the last stop wasnt needed, he suspects a last stop was needed in silverstone but again being a yes man now just followed the team. Why doesnt he follow his own mind? I always thought he used to.

Oh yeah because he knows the position of his competitors and what laptimes are doing. It's the job of the pitwall engineers to put the right strategy for him.

You can't do things from your own mind as you don't have the full picture :roll::


Isnt that what pit-car radio is for? You know, certain superior drivers like Alonso, Hamilton and vettel have a conversation and work things out in their own mind and tell the team what they are doing.

So how come he couldnt read the track then like Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton can? How come he cant just go and make his own decision to stay out? If he feels he can make the tyres work, he should follow what he thinks. Only he is behind the wheel, no point bemoaning the team constantly when all you do is follow them like a sheep. instead, he should take his own initiative and believe in himself. Make your own strategy and adapt yourself by getting the info given from the pitwall and how you feel in the car. Thats how Alonso won barcelona. Thats how Kimi wouldve won this GP too.

So why Alonso didn't pit in Malaysia to change his front wing when his team told him to stay out? :lol:

So Alonso won in Barcelona because he decided what to do? lol the strategy was simple: Just drive the maximum of the car. Actually Ferrari told him what to do, chose the best strategy for him. He just had to drive fast - do qualifying runs.

But yeah according to you, Alonso can drive and do everything alone :lol:

Why he didn't pit in Canada last year? he lost few places in the final few laps. Why he pitted early in Silversone 2012? he lost his place to Webber before 4 laps to go!

BTW, why he listened to what Stella told him in Abu Dhabi 2010? the most stupid strategy ever :roll::

Please let's keep this topic to talk about Kimi's future. You can open a new topic to talk about anything else.


Please point out where i said Alonso was a psychic and could tell what laptime people was doing. Oh you cant, because your just coming out with s*** again. As stated clearly before, alonso analyses the data which the pitwall gives him, processes it with what he see's and feels on track. just like Lewis and Vettel do.

1) Alonso made a mistake on what he believed was fine. We could see it was ridiculous, Ferrari should've seen that. They didnt, and it cost them massively, arguably the win. It was their stupid choice and like I said, Alonso should've been kicked in the penis for it.

2) Barcelona; they drove all out. the team listened to Alonso on the tyres. he chose when to stop. They ignored laptimes and went of how HE felt behind the wheel, as said by Stefano in many interviews. He made his own strategy.

3) He didnt stop because they both agreed it wouldnt be needed. They didnt react to Hamilton when they shouldve. They both again made a mistake. Infact they made 2 mistakes and its a factor which cost them a championship as they didnt react to Vettel. They didnt think the tyres would have such an advantage. Both screwed up.

4) Because he believed it would be the best option along with the team. It wasn't.

5) Because they covered Webber who they both saw as their arch rival for the championship, when RBR sacrificed Webber to trick ferrari into reacting so Vettel could take the championship with ease. Anyone watching the race thought it was the correct decision. Its only hindsight idiots like yourself criticise it now.

Whats so hard to understand? Alonso has, many times dictated to the team exactly what he is doing and what he wants to do. He has also listened to the team to make his decisions, but if he feels something for definate, whether its right or wrong at the outcome he has gone for it and even disregarded the team. It has worked before and it has failed before. Risks work, risks dont work. You have to take them. But Alonso has never been a yes man like kimi is right now. He doesnt blindly follow the team. He will take their information into account but he will decide himself if he agree's or if he challenges the decision and whole-heartedly disagrees and will decide against what could be better advice.

For every bad decision there is a good decision. Its life. If your follow your heart and have belief, and if its not blindingly obvious like malaysia, then nobody has a right criticise someone at 200mph trying to think an hour ahead and successfully doing it, whether the outcome is right or not. But if you just trust the team constantly, you have no b*** to think for yourself, you constantly rely on someone to do everything for you ala Felipe Massa, and if you still b*** up yourself, then the driver should be criticised as much as the team.

lets be honest, Kimi hasn't been as good as he was when he was at Mclaren or Ferrari. I dont see the great iceman anymore. last year he wouldve gone up the inside of Vettel without thinking once let alone twice. he wouldnt have failed miserably in Barcelona, he wouldnt have been stuck behind a slow Alonso in Hungary, he wouldnt have been stuck behind Grosjean nor would he have been Slower than Grosjean.

Kimi has become hesitant, he just isn't the driver he was before. Whether he has consistent point finishes or not, he is not the same. Kimi wouldve gone all out and would've overtook and took every chance without fail, he would've thought ahead, he wouldve made his own decisions and destiny instead of relying on a completely complacent pit wall.
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 Post subject: Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2013, 11:51  
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Kimi's a smarter driver now. He knows he can't win race after race on all-out pace, so why not just keep it consistent?
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 Post subject: Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2013, 12:49  
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Joey Zyla wrote:
Kimi's a smarter driver now. He knows he can't win race after race on all-out pace, so why not just keep it consistent?


He is a smarter driver who still relies on an incompetant pitwall instead of actually following and reading the race

Consistency is great but he has lost that killer instinct. Its pure luck he managed to beat Schumachers record. How stupid he was in China, and then had the b*** to slate perez for doing an Identical move back in Monaco, yet both times Perez was slated and kimi abstained as the angel. Ontop of not having the bottle to go for killer moves like on Alonso in Hungary, Vettel in Bahrain, spent too much time behind Hamilton last race. Then he doesnt have pace for many laps then it suddenly comes. Again last race Grosjean had the measure of raikkonen and he just couldnt maintain that pace or consistency Grosjean had which happens time to time for all drivers.

infact i dare say that just because he continually scores in the top 10, doesnt make him consistent in that he maximises the performance of the car ala Hamilton or Alonso. I just feel Kimi is different, he isnt relentless like he used to be, he isn't as fast as he used to be, and he still reminds me of 2008/2009; Fast on his day but more often than not, he isn't there.
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 Post subject: Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2013, 15:57  
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Well... all the importance of "make or break" decisions are the DIRECT effect of not having the best car; if he can still put it up there, let's say at least on the podium, he's doing a great job already. After the race anyone can criticize a decision, and i find it poor form that Kimi has sent the blame several times already to the pit wall. Maybe it's a sign he is going to Red Bull.

There would not be a bigger strategy/decision problem than what happened to Webber in Silverstone, and he almost won that one.

Alonso said something VERY meaningful after Q in Germany: the strategy will work if we have the pace.

And that's the bottom line. Ferrari, almost had the pace, but not quite... so it didn't work. They were very close, but RB was just faster than everyone else. Vettel was the fastest.

I think Kimi will go to Red Bull. If he doesnt, I would be very surprised, and i'd say it would be purely based on meeting "contractual" demands. If they can't meet, they'd grab Daniel.

The whole Toro Rosso is simply a testing ground. The opportunity to discover and test a talent is already worth what RB is investing (In their eyes). No other team has had about 5-6 drivers, with CRUCIAL track experience at their disposal, at any time in the past 3/4 yrs or so.

When you consider the amount of $ RB has, compare it to Williams... then realize expenses are kinda limited in F1 to fit Williams, then RB has tons of $ to spare. And even then, Toro Rosso earns some money back and guarantees a couple of extra positions in times of need. Yea, the driver's program, the 2nd team is a bit redundant... but so is having the fastest car and the fastest driver... yet everyone wants that ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2013, 08:14  
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I think Kimi could have won in Germany if he wouldn't stop the last time. Maybe I'm wrong, but thats how I feel..
Referring to him going to RedBull, we don't know if the 2014 redbull car will be the best car on the grid with all the regulation changes that will occur. So it is possible he will do a Hulkenberg; but because A. Newey is there, it's very likely that the car will be good, but he will have to fight Vettel, who is younger, a little faster (my opinion) and is in that team for 5 years now? I think is going to be hard for him... he will not have the no 1 status that he has now; I guess we will find out in 2-3 months?
Oh and if Kimi decides not to leave Lotus I think Redbull would be better off with Hulkenberg then Ricciardo.

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 Post subject: Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2013, 10:27  
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Kimi couldve won Germany if they pitted him early, but Grosjean had the win sacrificed for Kimi to again fall flat. Its ironic how Grosjean always hinders kimi at the wrong time. He needs to be more consistent. More often than not, Grosjean has been on par or faster He just needs to get the finishes which I believe will come. its weird to think that Perez has more experience than Grosjean. If he can finish the rest of the year like Germany, he will be brilliant.
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 Post subject: Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2013, 11:32  
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According to AMuS, Red Bull want Kimi for 3 years!

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 14313.html
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 Post subject: Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2013, 12:16  
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Well I think this all but effectively means RBR should pull out STR or sell them.
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 Post subject: Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2013, 15:03  
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If Seb leaves in a year or two, than it would probably be better that they sign Kimi to have an experience driver in the team. But than again he doesn't like to do simulator work, which RB want their drivers to do.
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 Post subject: Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2013, 15:04  
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My two cents about the forgotten, third man...
http://www.f1zone.net/news/the-third-ma ... here/19773

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