Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

This forum gives you a chance to be able to communicate with your fellow F1 fans.
milpt140
kart driver
kart driver
Posts: 49
Joined: 13 Apr 2010, 05:31

Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

Post by milpt140 » 07 Jul 2013, 16:55

I just wish Kimi will be able to get the other seat of RedBull...

User avatar
tderias
PL Manager
PL Manager
Posts: 1696
Joined: 06 Jun 2011, 14:59

Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

Post by tderias » 07 Jul 2013, 16:59

It's a tricky position to be in if you were RB team principle though, isn't it? Ricciardo's done everything he can possibly do to show that he's ready for the seat, but who can turn down a champion like Kimi Raikonnen?

User avatar
Joey Zyla
F1 Driver
F1 Driver
Posts: 1279
Joined: 06 Mar 2013, 05:19
Location: Oregon
Contact:

Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

Post by Joey Zyla » 07 Jul 2013, 17:04

It depends on whether Red Bull want a great chance to win the championship in the next couple of years, or a good chance to win the championship over the next several years.

User avatar
tderias
PL Manager
PL Manager
Posts: 1696
Joined: 06 Jun 2011, 14:59

Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

Post by tderias » 07 Jul 2013, 17:09

Joey Zyla wrote:It depends on whether Red Bull want a great chance to win the championship in the next couple of years, or a good chance to win the championship over the next several years.

So which pairing do you think will give them the greater chance?

User avatar
Joey Zyla
F1 Driver
F1 Driver
Posts: 1279
Joined: 06 Mar 2013, 05:19
Location: Oregon
Contact:

Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

Post by Joey Zyla » 07 Jul 2013, 17:19

tderias wrote:
Joey Zyla wrote:It depends on whether Red Bull want a great chance to win the championship in the next couple of years, or a good chance to win the championship over the next several years.

So which pairing do you think will give them the greater chance?

It depends on a lot of things. It depends on when Vettel leaves Red Bull. It depends on the performance of the car over the next few years. Vettel-Raikkonen would give Red Bull the best chance to win the WCC in the next couple of seasons, but Ricciardo is younger, so will improve over the years and probably would stay with the team longer than Raikkonen would. If the car is as far ahead of the rest as it is this year, it really doesn't matter whether Raikkonen or Ricciardo or even Vergne is driving the second car. I would choose Ricciardo. When Vettel leaves (I believe he is currently signed until 2016), Ricciardo can be promoted to the first driver role. Raikkonen will probably retire around the same time Vettel's contract expires, which means if Vettel decides to jump ship, that leaves both places empty. It's too early to predict who will be available for Red Bull by 2016/2017.

User avatar
majidasadi
GP2 Driver
GP2 Driver
Posts: 237
Joined: 03 Sep 2011, 05:29

Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

Post by majidasadi » 08 Jul 2013, 06:16

If Red Bull signs Kimi then people will start to ask serious questions about the credibility of Red Bull's junior program.Why Red Bull invests a certain amount of money in a program that it doesn't intend to use? When Helmut Marko cannot trust his young drivers to give them a seat then who else can?
Besides,if the decide to sign Kimi,then what will happen to their current drivers? Toro Rosso will probably sign Felix da Costa for next year,so one of the current drivers has to leave,which I think that will be JEV. I remember 2 years ago that people were saying he can be even faster than Vettel,but if Red Bull signs Kimi then he'll probably leave the sport and may never come back again. Bourdais,Buemi and Alguersuari's career's ended in tears and seems like JEV 's going down the same road...
A craven can be as brave as any man, when there is nothing to fear. And we all do our duty, when there is no cost to it. How easy it seems then, to walk the path of honor.

User avatar
Treacle
GP2 Driver
GP2 Driver
Posts: 442
Joined: 02 Jan 2012, 17:33
Location: Budapest

Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

Post by Treacle » 08 Jul 2013, 07:21

Yet, tderias has a point. I don't believe anyone here would say no to Kimi if they were in Horner's shoes.
And don't forget that Vettel wants to prove to the world, that his 3 titles are won with talent, not just the car. So how do you do that? You sign someone popular, who is recognized for their talent. Someone like Kimi.
Ricciardo would be great as a number two driver, but you can't really pass a chance liket this.

With that being said, I don't really see the point of STR...
"Right now I'm having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before."

User avatar
Joey Zyla
F1 Driver
F1 Driver
Posts: 1279
Joined: 06 Mar 2013, 05:19
Location: Oregon
Contact:

Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

Post by Joey Zyla » 08 Jul 2013, 07:24

Treacle wrote:Yet, tderias has a point. I don't believe anyone here would say no to Kimi if they were in Horner's shoes.
And don't forget that Vettel wants to prove to the world, that his 3 titles are won with talent, not just the car. So how do you do that? You sign someone popular, who is recognized for their talent. Someone like Kimi.
Ricciardo would be great as a number two driver, but you can't really pass a chance liket this.

With that being said, I don't really see the point of STR...

Of course I would. Kimi will probably start going downhill by 2015 anyway.

User avatar
Treacle
GP2 Driver
GP2 Driver
Posts: 442
Joined: 02 Jan 2012, 17:33
Location: Budapest

Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

Post by Treacle » 08 Jul 2013, 07:31

Joey Zyla wrote:
Treacle wrote:Yet, tderias has a point. I don't believe anyone here would say no to Kimi if they were in Horner's shoes.
And don't forget that Vettel wants to prove to the world, that his 3 titles are won with talent, not just the car. So how do you do that? You sign someone popular, who is recognized for their talent. Someone like Kimi.
Ricciardo would be great as a number two driver, but you can't really pass a chance liket this.

With that being said, I don't really see the point of STR...

Of course I would. Kimi will probably start going downhill by 2015 anyway.


Well, an exception only proves the rule. :D
I wouldn't be too worried about Kimi's qualities. If I want to come up with reasons as why not to sign him, I'd rather worry about him quitting in a year or two. But then again, a year or two is enough to race against Vettel in the same car... I guess you are right, they should sign someone based on what their goal is.
And then their is a huge question mark concerning their performance come 2014. You can't say for sure that RB will be as dominant as it is now. On the contrary, people believe that Mercedes will run away that title.

I'd definitely sign Kimi, even if just for a year. Leave Ricciardo at STR for the time being, and if Kimi quits, put him in his place...
Last edited by Treacle on 08 Jul 2013, 08:48, edited 1 time in total.
"Right now I'm having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before."

User avatar
mikhailv
F1 Routinier
F1 Routinier
Posts: 4110
Joined: 31 Mar 2008, 15:27
Location: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire

Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

Post by mikhailv » 08 Jul 2013, 07:46

Treacle wrote:
Joey Zyla wrote:
Treacle wrote:Yet, tderias has a point. I don't believe anyone here would say no to Kimi if they were in Horner's shoes.
And don't forget that Vettel wants to prove to the world, that his 3 titles are won with talent, not just the car. So how do you do that? You sign someone popular, who is recognized for their talent. Someone like Kimi.
Ricciardo would be great as a number two driver, but you can't really pass a chance liket this.

With that being said, I don't really see the point of STR...

Of course I would. Kimi will probably start going downhill by 2015 anyway.


Well, an exception only proves the rule. :D
I wouldn't be too worried about Kimi's qualities. If I want to come up with reasons as why not to sign him, I'd rather worry about him quitting in a year or two. But then again, a year or two is enough to race again Vettel in the same car... I guess you are right, they should sign someone based on what their goal is.
And then their is a huge question mark concerning their performance come 2014. You can't say for sure that RB will be as dominant as it is now. On the contrary, people believe that Mercedes will run away that title.

I'd definietly sign Kimi, even if just for a year. Leave Ricciardo at STR for the time being, and if Kimi quits, put him in his place...


I wouldnt sign Kimi. I always thought the guy was pretty equal to Alonso, but he just wont make his own decisions in the race. Instead of reading the track and believing in himself and his skills, he just follows what the team says. He suspects the last stop wasnt needed, he suspects a last stop was needed in silverstone but again being a yes man now just followed the team. Why doesnt he follow his own mind? I always thought he used to.

User avatar
Treacle
GP2 Driver
GP2 Driver
Posts: 442
Joined: 02 Jan 2012, 17:33
Location: Budapest

Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

Post by Treacle » 08 Jul 2013, 07:56

mikhailv wrote:I wouldnt sign Kimi. I always thought the guy was pretty equal to Alonso, but he just wont make his own decisions in the race. Instead of reading the track and believing in himself and his skills, he just follows what the team says. He suspects the last stop wasnt needed, he suspects a last stop was needed in silverstone but again being a yes man now just followed the team. Why doesnt he follow his own mind? I always thought he used to.

That's a double-edged sword, if I want to be honest. In these cases he would have been right to overrule the team's decision, but he didn't. But had he been wrong, everybody would be jumping at his throat, that there is a team, and he is only part of that. And since the engineers have more information, they know better. (Look at what happened at Malaysia with Alonso. He was told he should come in, but he decided the other way. I know Ferrari said it was the team's decision, but then they wouldn't have been waiting for him at the box. They were just saving face, because they didn't want Alonso to seem like someone who doesn't listen to them.)
I still stand by my opinion, the Red Bull would lose nothing with signing Kimi for a year or two.
"Right now I'm having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before."

User avatar
iceman1
F1 Legend
F1 Legend
Posts: 23702
Joined: 16 Sep 2006, 15:50
Location: North Pole
Contact:

Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

Post by iceman1 » 08 Jul 2013, 08:05

mikhailv wrote:I wouldnt sign Kimi. I always thought the guy was pretty equal to Alonso, but he just wont make his own decisions in the race. Instead of reading the track and believing in himself and his skills, he just follows what the team says. He suspects the last stop wasnt needed, he suspects a last stop was needed in silverstone but again being a yes man now just followed the team. Why doesnt he follow his own mind? I always thought he used to.

Oh yeah because he knows the position of his competitors and what laptimes are doing. It's the job of the pitwall engineers to put the right strategy for him.

You can't do things from your own mind as you don't have the full picture :roll::

User avatar
mikhailv
F1 Routinier
F1 Routinier
Posts: 4110
Joined: 31 Mar 2008, 15:27
Location: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire

Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

Post by mikhailv » 08 Jul 2013, 08:37

iceman1 wrote:
mikhailv wrote:I wouldnt sign Kimi. I always thought the guy was pretty equal to Alonso, but he just wont make his own decisions in the race. Instead of reading the track and believing in himself and his skills, he just follows what the team says. He suspects the last stop wasnt needed, he suspects a last stop was needed in silverstone but again being a yes man now just followed the team. Why doesnt he follow his own mind? I always thought he used to.

Oh yeah because he knows the position of his competitors and what laptimes are doing. It's the job of the pitwall engineers to put the right strategy for him.

You can't do things from your own mind as you don't have the full picture :roll::


Isnt that what pit-car radio is for? You know, certain superior drivers like Alonso, Hamilton and vettel have a conversation and work things out in their own mind and tell the team what they are doing.

So how come he couldnt read the track then like Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton can? How come he cant just go and make his own decision to stay out? If he feels he can make the tyres work, he should follow what he thinks. Only he is behind the wheel, no point bemoaning the team constantly when all you do is follow them like a sheep. instead, he should take his own initiative and believe in himself. Make your own strategy and adapt yourself by getting the info given from the pitwall and how you feel in the car. Thats how Alonso won barcelona. Thats how Kimi wouldve won this GP too.
Last edited by mikhailv on 08 Jul 2013, 08:49, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mikhailv
F1 Routinier
F1 Routinier
Posts: 4110
Joined: 31 Mar 2008, 15:27
Location: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire

Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

Post by mikhailv » 08 Jul 2013, 08:46

Treacle wrote:
mikhailv wrote:I wouldnt sign Kimi. I always thought the guy was pretty equal to Alonso, but he just wont make his own decisions in the race. Instead of reading the track and believing in himself and his skills, he just follows what the team says. He suspects the last stop wasnt needed, he suspects a last stop was needed in silverstone but again being a yes man now just followed the team. Why doesnt he follow his own mind? I always thought he used to.

That's a double-edged sword, if I want to be honest. In these cases he would have been right to overrule the team's decision, but he didn't. But had he been wrong, everybody would be jumping at his throat, that there is a team, and he is only part of that. And since the engineers have more information, they know better. (Look at what happened at Malaysia with Alonso. He was told he should come in, but he decided the other way. I know Ferrari said it was the team's decision, but then they wouldn't have been waiting for him at the box. They were just saving face, because they didn't want Alonso to seem like someone who doesn't listen to them.)
I still stand by my opinion, the Red Bull would lose nothing with signing Kimi for a year or two.


Not really. If it goes right its praised, if it goes wrong its criticised. Regardless of it being the driver or the team. Nobody is 100% right every time. If it doesnt work it doesnt work. For me, if you follow your heart and you believe it will work, unless its painfully obvious like your example of Malaysia where Alonso shouldve been punched in the genitalia, nobody should criticise someone behind the wheel who feels they could make it last. You commit and you believe nobody should criticise that.

If you just constant humm and harr then leave things too late and just make a further bodge up, then criticism is deserved. Lotus took too long to get Grosjean out the way, if they were to implement team orders, do it from turn 1. Problem is Grosjean was faster and better than Kimi in the race. By the time they implemented team orders, they pitted grosjean early and banked all on kimi who struggled to overtake Hamilton only to get into the lead. Its here where Lotus and Kimi again failed. To me, if they optimised Rogro they wouldve won the race easier than with Kimi. Problem is, if Lotus are serious about the WDC Grosjean wouldnt have been allowed to even be in that position faster or not.

If they were to pit, they shouldve pitted when he had the 16 second gap. They didnt, for the umpteenth time either the driver or the team hesitated. They make the right strategy call too many laps too late. Instead Kimi shouldve just said that he doesnt have the pit window, im staying out. they gifted Vettel another win because the team isnt run right and Kimi wont put his foot down or actually be the great world champion he is. Somethings holding him back whether its the team or his own disappointment in the team/disbelief in himself behind the wheel I dont know.

But I cant see what RBR would truly get out of Kimi when they have vettel. I mean lotus couldve won but they all dropped the ball at different times.

User avatar
iceman1
F1 Legend
F1 Legend
Posts: 23702
Joined: 16 Sep 2006, 15:50
Location: North Pole
Contact:

Re: Raikkonen to Red Bull in 2014?

Post by iceman1 » 08 Jul 2013, 10:18

mikhailv wrote:
iceman1 wrote:
mikhailv wrote:I wouldnt sign Kimi. I always thought the guy was pretty equal to Alonso, but he just wont make his own decisions in the race. Instead of reading the track and believing in himself and his skills, he just follows what the team says. He suspects the last stop wasnt needed, he suspects a last stop was needed in silverstone but again being a yes man now just followed the team. Why doesnt he follow his own mind? I always thought he used to.

Oh yeah because he knows the position of his competitors and what laptimes are doing. It's the job of the pitwall engineers to put the right strategy for him.

You can't do things from your own mind as you don't have the full picture :roll::


Isnt that what pit-car radio is for? You know, certain superior drivers like Alonso, Hamilton and vettel have a conversation and work things out in their own mind and tell the team what they are doing.

So how come he couldnt read the track then like Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton can? How come he cant just go and make his own decision to stay out? If he feels he can make the tyres work, he should follow what he thinks. Only he is behind the wheel, no point bemoaning the team constantly when all you do is follow them like a sheep. instead, he should take his own initiative and believe in himself. Make your own strategy and adapt yourself by getting the info given from the pitwall and how you feel in the car. Thats how Alonso won barcelona. Thats how Kimi wouldve won this GP too.

So why Alonso didn't pit in Malaysia to change his front wing when his team told him to stay out? :lol:

So Alonso won in Barcelona because he decided what to do? lol the strategy was simple: Just drive the maximum of the car. Actually Ferrari told him what to do, chose the best strategy for him. He just had to drive fast - do qualifying runs.

But yeah according to you, Alonso can drive and do everything alone :lol:

Why he didn't pit in Canada last year? he lost few places in the final few laps. Why he pitted early in Silversone 2012? he lost his place to Webber before 4 laps to go!

BTW, why he listened to what Stella told him in Abu Dhabi 2010? the most stupid strategy ever :roll::

Please let's keep this topic to talk about Kimi's future. You can open a new topic to talk about anything else.

Post Reply