Mercedes/Pirelli International Tribunal - Decision Friday

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Joey Zyla
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Re: Mercedes/Pirelli to face International Tribunal on June

Post by Joey Zyla » 19 Jun 2013, 23:51

Wow, I didn't realize it's so close already...

I think the FIA will let Mercedes off with a fine in fear of them pulling out. A points deduction could happen, but I don't think it will be any more than fifteen (points).

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Re: Mercedes/Pirelli to face International Tribunal on June

Post by phil1993 » 20 Jun 2013, 07:11

Horner is there...

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Re: Mercedes/Pirelli to face International Tribunal on June

Post by donald29 » 20 Jun 2013, 07:31

Stirrrrr

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Re: Mercedes/Pirelli to face International Tribunal on June

Post by phil1993 » 20 Jun 2013, 07:34

Apparently Lauda wanted to plead guilty and cut a deal with the FIA.

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Re: Mercedes/Pirelli to face International Tribunal on June

Post by mikhailv » 20 Jun 2013, 08:32

phil1993 wrote:Apparently Lauda wanted to plead guilty and cut a deal with the FIA.


Brawn and Wolff though didnt want to. Is it me, or do these guys want to pull out or something? Excuse for Brawn to leave. Excuse for either Merc to pull out or Wolf to take over.

If they were innocent and had all this permission lauda was bleating on about, why cut a deal, eh.

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Re: Mercedes/Pirelli to face International Tribunal on June

Post by iceman1 » 20 Jun 2013, 08:32

Sky Sports website wrote:FIA: 'There is very little factual dispute about this case. We know when the test took place, where it took place and with what cars and drivers it took place.'

According to Craig Slater, they have since moved on to 'undermine' what was expected to be a central tenant of Mercedes' defence.

Lead counsel for the FIA, Mark Howard, said that "there was some communication between Mercedes and the FIA, there was no outlining of when the test would happen or under what terms.'

In essence, the FIA remain adamant that the test was not ratified.

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Re: Mercedes/Pirelli to face International Tribunal on June

Post by mikhailv » 20 Jun 2013, 08:37

A perusal of interest into a test isn't permission to go ahead and do it when you want. Its like me enquiring with the girlfriend whether she would like to get married one day in the future. And then ask her tomorrow.

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Re: Mercedes/Pirelli to face International Tribunal on June

Post by iceman1 » 20 Jun 2013, 08:43

AMuS says it was Mercedes' decision to test with the 2013 car, because no 2011 car was ready.

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Re: Mercedes/Pirelli to face International Tribunal on June

Post by phil1993 » 20 Jun 2013, 09:12

It's not looking good for Mercedes, is it?

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Re: Mercedes/Pirelli to face International Tribunal on June

Post by Joey Zyla » 20 Jun 2013, 09:12

phil1993 wrote:It's not looking good for Mercedes, is it?

No, not at all. :fear:

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Re: Mercedes/Pirelli to face International Tribunal on June

Post by iceman1 » 20 Jun 2013, 09:32

11:22 The installation script is read. Judge Edwin Glasgow announces a break of 15 minutes by mocking reference to: "This Mercedes can digest what they have just heard."

:rofl:

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Re: Mercedes/Pirelli to face International Tribunal on June

Post by mikhailv » 20 Jun 2013, 09:37

They need either a 5 race disqualification or the complete stripping of constructor points. Honda used fuel as ballast with a hidden compartment didnt they at imola 2005 in Buttons car when he got 3rd; 3 race ban received.

mercedes must be severely mentally challenged to do a test in a 2013 car because a 2011 one wasn't ready, ontop of not getting permission from the FIA. Its just ludicrous. Why couldnt they get a 2011 car ready? Clearly Pirelli didnt ring up sunday night at Spain and say 'GUYS, GUYS. WE GOT BARCELONA FOR A FEW DAYS! BE THERE OR BE SQUARE!'.

And why Didnt Pirelli say something if they knew they couldnt use a 2013 car!?

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Re: Mercedes/Pirelli to face International Tribunal on June

Post by phil1993 » 20 Jun 2013, 09:40

No, they need to find a proper punishment not what angry fans think.

I was just thinking - I'm confused as to why Pirelli is heavily involved in this. They aren't strictly contracted so aren't binded by the sporting regulations; it's up to Mercedes, not Pirelli, to comply.

The FIA also seems to be distancing itself from Whiting....

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Re: Mercedes/Pirelli to face International Tribunal on June

Post by iceman1 » 20 Jun 2013, 09:43

The fair thing is to lose all the points they have scored after Barcelona, and a $10M fine.

$5M fine for Pirelli.

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Re: Mercedes/Pirelli to face International Tribunal on June

Post by mikhailv » 20 Jun 2013, 09:45

Nothing to be angry about. Rules. Broken. :roll::

Ted Kravitz;


Ted said the additional aspect of Mercedes' defence, their conversations with Charlie Whiting, has also been taken to task by the FIA's QC:

"It seems to rest on some communications with Charlie Whiting, the FIA's Race Director. What the FIA are saying is if those communications happened in writing, which they were not, that automatically has to be distributed to all the other teams and then all the other teams would have been in a position to say 'hang on, no, no no, we object to this test and we don't want it to happen'.

"Then as the QC said in the hearing, history would have taken a very different course."

Via James Galloway

Ted Kravitz has popped out of the hearing to go live with an update on Sky Sports following the FIA's prosecuting case:

"The FIA have started by setting out the case for the prosecution. They have started by establishing the facts that we know and they have been going through Mercedes’ ‘excuses’ if you like – Mercedes’ points as to why they thought it was legal to do so," Ted reports.

"The FIA’s QC has point-by-point been actually disapproving Mercedes’ excuses. Mercedes’ excuse number one was that they had permission via an informal communication with the FIA’s Race Director Charlie Whiting, but the FIA said that permission, even if it was to be given, was conditional on the approval of all the other teams – and that approval was never sought nor given. So that’s Mercedes excuse number one supposedly done away with.

"Mercedes’ excuse number two was that they didn’t learn anything from the test that would be useful or beneficial from making Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg’s cars go quicker on track. To that the FIA say ‘I’m afraid you can’t give that excuse because even if you didn’t learn anything, you’re learning something, because in a way there’s nothing you need to change on the car’. So even by not learning anything in a way you are learning something.

"The FIA have been going through their prosecution in a very meticulous way with their QC. They’re about to wrap their prosecution up and we’re about to hear what Mercedes have got to say themselves in their defence."



And losing points after barcelona isn't a fair penalty. You have to punish 1000km distance of knowledge from the car. Stripping constructors or removing both driver and car points, changing the results of Monaco and Canada would be suffice as a retrospective disqualification and start Silverstone from scratch or even ban them for that 3rd race and thats it.

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