Mercedes/Pirelli International Tribunal - Decision Friday

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mikhailv
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Re: Mercedes face protest over tyre testing

Post by mikhailv » 04 Jun 2013, 08:48

Further safety for Ferrari Twisted Armco;
But Ferrari spokesman Renato Bisignani told Brazil's O Estado de S.Paulo: "There is nothing wrong with using a two year old car -- the rules allow it."

Indeed, it is believed that the 2011 Ferrari used for the Pirelli test was actually owned by a private owner, and operated by the Corse Clienti department, not the race or test team
http://www.onestopstrategy.com/dailyf1n ... rrari.html

That is why no PR or Glitz is required. Because they are clients of ferrari who are playing with their toys.

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mikhailv
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Re: Mercedes face protest over tyre testing

Post by mikhailv » 04 Jun 2013, 08:56

Another massive point is that Ross Brawn said that the majority of the testing was for 2014 tyres. My questions;

1) How would he know if they werent told what they were testing?
2) Why would Brawn be there if they are to only provide a car and skeleton team to be ran by Pirelli?
3) Why did Paul Hembrey say that no 2013 car is representative for 2014 tyres then proceed to use a 2013 car?
4) Why did Pirelli then change their tune and say they tested alot of 2013 tyres as 2014 wouldnt be repsentable?
5) Why say that they were testing 2013 tyres for safety issues yet categorically say before the test that the tyres are full deflation as opposed to a blow out which makes them much more safer?

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Re: Mercedes face protest over tyre testing

Post by TwistedArmco » 04 Jun 2013, 18:45

mikhailv wrote:1) How was it cloak and dagger? Corse clienti are at set days set up by Ferrari for major customers and partners. Why do a press conference? Its nobodies business. If pirelli want to run a 3 season old car they can do as much as they want. Ferrari can so long as they sacrifice time in the wind tunnel I believe, with notification to the FIA.


Photos were available from the guy who took them and the mercedes one, posted them on his blog and were picked up on many forums and websites. If there was cloak and dagger from Ferrari, I suggest you go read Adam coopers blog and discussion with Pius. Might be able to learn something.

Corse clienti is a private event. Not public. Ferrari never do pr and glitz around it. As said, its nobodies business. All evidence is with the FIA. I dont care if you believe me, truth will come out and you'll just look like an not a very nice person picking up on spelling and demanding pr and glitz for corse clienti. I fear the shitstorm you wouldve caused had you known about the 3 f2012 corse clienti tests and the 2 straightline tests last year. i guess Lotus test just before Ferrari at barcelona is so secret MI5 have a casefile on it, yeah?

Im off my mobile phone now so I can elaborate further. its horrid trying to write long paragraphs on an S4!

Basically, Ferrari are in zero trouble. They didn't do any illegal running, there was no secrecy. The track was open, Lotus knew about Ferrari's test because they conducted one at a similar time with the DDRS concept for some reason. There is never much publicity about these things. Hell, nobody complained about Caterham doing a promotional day with Heikki, using a cover for the stepped nose. Its nothing to do a promotional event or clientele event. Teams do it all the time, similar to straight line testing. Most outlets dont report it such as Autosport, but the more localised websites do report it.

Ferrari are only there, as said of the F1 show, to tell mercedes 'this is how it should be done'. Hell if Christian Horner is defending Ferrari, you know they've done nothing wrong, and are there as an example of how to correctly run car.
I'm not saying they're in trouble, nor am I saying they should be. I am not worried for Ferrari, and I'm not saying they broke any rules. Nor am I saying the Merc test isn't dodgy. The Merc test is really dodgy.

But I still think that the only reason that Ferrari are being mentioned in the same headlines as Mercedes and Pirelli (apart from a certain British press bias against them) is a lack of transparency. Why would you not mention what you're doing? Just because it's 'nobody's business' doesn't mean that a well-judged amount of PR wouldn't have done Ferrari a few favours. A few blog posts from keen-eyed F1 fans and some 'localized press'? I understand why a proper test would require secrecy, and that F1 is a constant spying game with some racing in between (and an unhealthy dose of politics) but if this wasn't a proper test, why bother with all that?
mikhailv wrote:Ah, have to target spelling on the internet to make yourself feel better. Good game.
Oh yes, cheap shot I know, but with your posts it's just so easy and I couldn't resist.
No, I'm not calmer. Just more jaded.

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mikhailv
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Re: Mercedes face protest over tyre testing

Post by mikhailv » 05 Jun 2013, 17:26

TwistedArmco wrote:
mikhailv wrote:1) How was it cloak and dagger? Corse clienti are at set days set up by Ferrari for major customers and partners. Why do a press conference? Its nobodies business. If pirelli want to run a 3 season old car they can do as much as they want. Ferrari can so long as they sacrifice time in the wind tunnel I believe, with notification to the FIA.


Photos were available from the guy who took them and the mercedes one, posted them on his blog and were picked up on many forums and websites. If there was cloak and dagger from Ferrari, I suggest you go read Adam coopers blog and discussion with Pius. Might be able to learn something.

Corse clienti is a private event. Not public. Ferrari never do pr and glitz around it. As said, its nobodies business. All evidence is with the FIA. I dont care if you believe me, truth will come out and you'll just look like an not a very nice person picking up on spelling and demanding pr and glitz for corse clienti. I fear the shitstorm you wouldve caused had you known about the 3 f2012 corse clienti tests and the 2 straightline tests last year. i guess Lotus test just before Ferrari at barcelona is so secret MI5 have a casefile on it, yeah?

Im off my mobile phone now so I can elaborate further. its horrid trying to write long paragraphs on an S4!

Basically, Ferrari are in zero trouble. They didn't do any illegal running, there was no secrecy. The track was open, Lotus knew about Ferrari's test because they conducted one at a similar time with the DDRS concept for some reason. There is never much publicity about these things. Hell, nobody complained about Caterham doing a promotional day with Heikki, using a cover for the stepped nose. Its nothing to do a promotional event or clientele event. Teams do it all the time, similar to straight line testing. Most outlets dont report it such as Autosport, but the more localised websites do report it.

Ferrari are only there, as said of the F1 show, to tell mercedes 'this is how it should be done'. Hell if Christian Horner is defending Ferrari, you know they've done nothing wrong, and are there as an example of how to correctly run car.
I'm not saying they're in trouble, nor am I saying they should be. I am not worried for Ferrari, and I'm not saying they broke any rules. Nor am I saying the Merc test isn't dodgy. The Merc test is really dodgy.

But I still think that the only reason that Ferrari are being mentioned in the same headlines as Mercedes and Pirelli (apart from a certain British press bias against them) is a lack of transparency. Why would you not mention what you're doing? Just because it's 'nobody's business' doesn't mean that a well-judged amount of PR wouldn't have done Ferrari a few favours. A few blog posts from keen-eyed F1 fans and some 'localized press'? I understand why a proper test would require secrecy, and that F1 is a constant spying game with some racing in between (and an unhealthy dose of politics) but if this wasn't a proper test, why bother with all that?
mikhailv wrote:Ah, have to target spelling on the internet to make yourself feel better. Good game.
Oh yes, cheap shot I know, but with your posts it's just so easy and I couldn't resist.
It was a proper test carried out by Pirelli though. Local outlets and keen bloggers are often the source of actual news, it depends if bigger websites deem the news worthy enough. Take Lotus. How many people did an article saying that they were testing DDRS again at the same time as Ferrari? no main outlets. Does that means its secret because people dont deem it newsworthy? No, it doesn't. Corse Clienti is an open event. No covers over the fences and being forcibly removed from the actual public road outside the circuit like at Barcelona :P

So to counter your question; how is it a secret if it was reported openly on many outlets, but not picked up by bigger sites? It doesn't. Any team can do a run on a 2 season old car or 3 season old, its a regular occurrence but you rarely read about it on main outlets as its small fry. That's THE only good thing about the autosport forum, when you go on the car threads, because they are actual avid fans of said teams, they know foreign language websites and local websites which report the littlest things which as seen, can turn into an absolutely mahoosive thing.

I mean ill be bluntly honest, I dont give two-shits about Ferrari. If theyre guilty then strip all constructor points and give them a huge fine ala Mclaren in 2007. Thats what needs to happen to Mercedes too but from whats been reported if they are penalised they WILL leave F1. I say do it. dont be held to randsom by a team. Screw them.

And I know its easy to do a cheap shop, but it doesn't matter. It just lowers the IQ of the forum and yourself a wee bit whilst detracting from your main post :n

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Re: Mercedes face protest over tyre testing

Post by Ether » 05 Jun 2013, 18:18

I think Pirelli themselves, I mean, Paul Hembery himself, seems like he really want to know what had happened in Mercedes car in Bahrain and Spain. He gutted to know what's going on with his tyres on that Mercedes car, and I think that's the reason why at the final Pirelli tends to choose the Mercedes team, and of course.. using the 2013 cars for solving the problems...

"problems" I mentioned is... I don't know, could Pirelli's but most likely is Mercedes. Or probably Pirelli just want to make sure that their tyres is not malfunctioned, it was just a matter of correct setup on the tyres? So they just need to give information to tweak on Mercedes car so that it can perform correctly.

Is this legal? Of course not.. It's just a fantasy of my mind what might had happened. Pirelli themselves really struggling on critics in media. especially on how bad that Mercedes perform. It will dominate the headlines on every news, the T words continues...
To stop this, they (I think) willingly to give a help to Mercedes... but of course, quietly...

With some trade of money, and some old pal of Brawn and Bernie himself seems liking the situation helping Mercedes, then the test continues...


After thinking all the scenario on what might happen next, I think... Mercedes would be punished badly. What might be happening is RB and Ferrari could do the same test just like Mercedes did. Mercedes will be fine, Ferrari and RB will be too... thus, all teams don't need to quit F1, especially these big teams.
Please remember that F1 is a circus! what a circus we watch if no players around it? So all big teams will be fine....
I wonder how about Lotus situation? They should have been mentioned as big teams as well... looking on how they perform this year and last year, they should have been growing more. But their money seems like running out. If Lotus broke, then Mercedes should be maintained whatever the consequences F1 must have (like forgiving this "secret" test), even more critics from RB and Ferrari will be stroke. But finally all will be fine. all is well :D

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Re: Mercedes face protest over tyre testing

Post by TwistedArmco » 05 Jun 2013, 20:28

mikhailv wrote:And I know its easy to do a cheap shop, but it doesn't matter. It just lowers the IQ of the forum and yourself a wee bit whilst detracting from your main post :n
Because you generally take the high-brow approach with your posting? :lol:

I like "lowers the IQ of the forum and yourself" though. I do feel strangely thicker since I made a jab at your spelling (just a wee bit mind), maybe there's something in what you say.
No, I'm not calmer. Just more jaded.

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Re: Mercedes face protest over tyre testing

Post by iceman1 » 05 Jun 2013, 21:39

Mercedes to face F1 tribunal over Pirelli tyre test
http://www.f1zone.net/news/mercedes-to- ... est/19188/
The Monaco Grand Prix Stewards raised in their report to the FIA an issue concerning a tyre testing session carried out by Pirelli with the participation of Team Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 in Barcelona on 15-17 May 2013[1].

The FIA requested clarifications from Pirelli and Team Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 in this respect.

The FIA also asked questions to Scuderia Ferrari Team, which took part in a tyre testing with Pirelli in Barcelona on 23-24 April 2013.

The FIA requested all the other F1 Teams to provide the FIA with information they may have regarding any tests carried out by Pirelli during the 2013 season.

In the light of all the replies received and in view of the information gathered during this inquiry, the President of the FIA, acting as the FIA prosecuting body, has decided:

To close the case as regard to Scuderia Ferrari Team considering that its participation in a tyre testing organized by Pirelli in Barcelona on 23-24 April 2013 using for this purpose a 2011 car is not deemed to contravene the applicable FIA rules.

To bring the case concerning the tyre testing session carried out by Pirelli and Team Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 in Barcelona on 15-17 May 2013 before the FIA International Tribunal because it results from the inquiry that the conditions of this testing may constitute a breach of the applicable FIA rules.

The FIA International Tribunal is called upon to make a decision in compliance with the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules.
http://www.fia.com/pirelli-and-mercedes

Well this looks serious now :blink:

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Re: Mercedes face protest over tyre testing

Post by donald29 » 05 Jun 2013, 22:12

s*** got real. :p

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mikhailv
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Re: Mercedes face protest over tyre testing

Post by mikhailv » 05 Jun 2013, 22:24

TwistedArmco wrote:
mikhailv wrote:And I know its easy to do a cheap shop, but it doesn't matter. It just lowers the IQ of the forum and yourself a wee bit whilst detracting from your main post :n
Because you generally take the high-brow approach with your posting? :lol:

I like "lowers the IQ of the forum and yourself" though. I do feel strangely thicker since I made a jab at your spelling (just a wee bit mind), maybe there's something in what you say.

High brow, low brow. Irrelevant. I mostly go on facts and beliefs which i elaborate on in detail :p


And told you bout Ferrari. I knew it due to the facts :)

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Re: Mercedes face protest over tyre testing

Post by F1EA » 06 Jun 2013, 01:51

Mikhailv 1
Twisted Armco 0

The refs have noted Armco's request regarding proper spelling, but deemed it a racing incident. No further action.

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mikhailv
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Re: Mercedes face protest over tyre testing

Post by mikhailv » 06 Jun 2013, 06:43

F1EA wrote:Mikhailv 1
Twisted Armco 0

The refs have noted Armco's request regarding proper spelling, but deemed it a racing incident. No further action.
I wish to lodge a formal complaint in the interest of discussion for clarification on the use of language on the board. I believe it is not against the rules to spell incorrectly and i believe that armco and the english dictionary have engaged in an illegal act by using a 2013 topic and 2013 dictionary.

i trust the FIA will handle this without bias. This weekends posts will not be protested but clarification is sought.

:lol:

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Re: Mercedes face protest over tyre testing

Post by iceman1 » 06 Jun 2013, 10:53

So Mercedes found a good excuse to get rid of Ross Brawn now :p

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Re: Mercedes face protest over tyre testing

Post by naiego » 06 Jun 2013, 15:25

iceman1 wrote:So Mercedes found a good excuse to get rid of Ross Brawn now :p
Why do they want to get rid of him?

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Re: Mercedes face protest over tyre testing

Post by Ether » 06 Jun 2013, 16:47

I think the arrival of Paddy Lowe is not about replacing Brawn, but to solve Hamilton's brake problems XD

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Re: Mercedes face protest over tyre testing

Post by phil1993 » 06 Jun 2013, 17:06

Brawn is nearing retirement age, Mercedes wants a seamless succession.

As expected, Lewis & Nico were fairly coy
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107889

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