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 Post subject: Re: Team Orders
PostPosted: 19 May 2013, 15:32  
car driver

Joined: 18 May 2013, 20:06
Posts: 20
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
In my opinion team orders that tell a driver 1. to let their teammate through or 2. they're not allowed to pass their team mate shouldn't be there. F1 is racing and therefore should be won and lost by racing. If a team needs to get a driver in front they do it by strategy or can advise the driver who has to concede and let him make his own decision.
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 Post subject: Re: Team Orders
PostPosted: 20 May 2013, 09:11  
car driver

Joined: 26 Mar 2013, 08:56
Posts: 6
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Skotyknows wrote:
In my opinion team orders that tell a driver 1. to let their teammate through or 2. they're not allowed to pass their team mate shouldn't be there. F1 is racing and therefore should be won and lost by racing. If a team needs to get a driver in front they do it by strategy or can advise the driver who has to concede and let him make his own decision.


I started this topic as I was so annoyed that after the second race we had stopped racing. But the masses out there totally disagreed with my statement so I left the topic alone as I had said my piece. I am glad a couple of you like to see motor racing at its purest. And most exciting. The pit stops and individuals strategy should not be made a complete waste of time for a driver who is doing everything right.
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 Post subject: Re: Team Orders
PostPosted: 20 May 2013, 15:53  
F1 Routinier
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008, 15:27
Posts: 4110
Location: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Skotyknows wrote:
In my opinion team orders that tell a driver 1. to let their teammate through or 2. they're not allowed to pass their team mate shouldn't be there. F1 is racing and therefore should be won and lost by racing. If a team needs to get a driver in front they do it by strategy or can advise the driver who has to concede and let him make his own decision.


Wrong. In every aspect of your opinion. What is Mclaren, Ferrari, Redbull, Force India etc? A TEAM. That means two drivers working for what is the best result for the team. In situation of championships, its crucial that team orders are enforced. Anyone who says Formula 1 is pure racing are utter idiots. This is a sport where lesser teams wave championship leaders by, a sport where teammates are discouraged from racing, a sport where teammates are asked to hold the field up, to act as a rear gunner for one or the other, a sport where customer teams wave their parent teams by.

Formula 1 is about racing your rivals, not your own teammates. Otherwise, why is it not single car entries? Why dont we have 22 teams instead of 11 teams then? You work for the best interest of the team. If they feel it is to hold station, so be it. If they feel it is to let by the better driver, so be it. Whether i agree with the act, whether I agree with the timing doesn't matter. I will complaing about it if i feel its unjust for ANY driver and ANY team. However, I will not berate the team for using team orders because its a principle I firmly believe in and is cemented in Formula 1 history.

Lest we forget Britain got its first WDC through team orders. Lest we forget Coulthard and Hakkinen had gentleman agreements of who goes into the corner first wins (not exactly abided to on the finns side). Lest we forget a certain WDC son threatening to take himself and his teammate out if he tries to overtake him in a certain Belgian GP driving a lovely yellow car. lest we forget Senna and Prost's problems were through the lack of team orders and enforcing them. Same with Alonso/Hamilton. Team orders cost both the WDC because they didn't implement them.

There is no such thing as racing your teammate as it often goes wrong. Had Vettel and Webber lost the WDC because of turkey 2010, would you not wish you called team orders for one or the other? Exactly.

If your after pure racing and disagree with team orders, stop watching Formula 1. Your lying to yourself about what it is. This sport is born on team orders, its fundamental to many world drivers championships. It has never been about 'pure racing' in the slightest.
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 Post subject: Re: Team Orders
PostPosted: 27 May 2013, 11:36  
car driver

Joined: 26 Mar 2013, 08:56
Posts: 6
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
I think there should be a way of keeping everyone happy. I would like to see that for a certain amount of races for example , teams are ordered that for say 6 races in the year they cant have team orders, and they must say which races they will let the drivers race. Its a thought which could be expanded on. But the last two races would have to be a free for all. Any constructive views or not.


mikhailv wrote:
Skotyknows wrote:
In my opinion team orders that tell a driver 1. to let their teammate through or 2. they're not allowed to pass their team mate shouldn't be there. F1 is racing and therefore should be won and lost by racing. If a team needs to get a driver in front they do it by strategy or can advise the driver who has to concede and let him make his own decision.


Wrong. In every aspect of your opinion. What is Mclaren, Ferrari, Redbull, Force India etc? A TEAM. That means two drivers working for what is the best result for the team. In situation of championships, its crucial that team orders are enforced. Anyone who says Formula 1 is pure racing are utter idiots. This is a sport where lesser teams wave championship leaders by, a sport where teammates are discouraged from racing, a sport where teammates are asked to hold the field up, to act as a rear gunner for one or the other, a sport where customer teams wave their parent teams by.

Formula 1 is about racing your rivals, not your own teammates. Otherwise, why is it not single car entries? Why dont we have 22 teams instead of 11 teams then? You work for the best interest of the team. If they feel it is to hold station, so be it. If they feel it is to let by the better driver, so be it. Whether i agree with the act, whether I agree with the timing doesn't matter. I will complaing about it if i feel its unjust for ANY driver and ANY team. However, I will not berate the team for using team orders because its a principle I firmly believe in and is cemented in Formula 1 history.

Lest we forget Britain got its first WDC through team orders. Lest we forget Coulthard and Hakkinen had gentleman agreements of who goes into the corner first wins (not exactly abided to on the finns side). Lest we forget a certain WDC son threatening to take himself and his teammate out if he tries to overtake him in a certain Belgian GP driving a lovely yellow car. lest we forget Senna and Prost's problems were through the lack of team orders and enforcing them. Same with Alonso/Hamilton. Team orders cost both the WDC because they didn't implement them.

There is no such thing as racing your teammate as it often goes wrong. Had Vettel and Webber lost the WDC because of turkey 2010, would you not wish you called team orders for one or the other? Exactly.

If your after pure racing and disagree with team orders, stop watching Formula 1. Your lying to yourself about what it is. This sport is born on team orders, its fundamental to many world drivers championships. It has never been about 'pure racing' in the slightest.
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 Post subject: Re: Team Orders
PostPosted: 27 May 2013, 13:15  
F1 Routinier
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008, 15:27
Posts: 4110
Location: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
angle grinder wrote:
I think there should be a way of keeping everyone happy. I would like to see that for a certain amount of races for example , teams are ordered that for say 6 races in the year they cant have team orders, and they must say which races they will let the drivers race. Its a thought which could be expanded on. But the last two races would have to be a free for all. Any constructive views or not.


mikhailv wrote:
Skotyknows wrote:
In my opinion team orders that tell a driver 1. to let their teammate through or 2. they're not allowed to pass their team mate shouldn't be there. F1 is racing and therefore should be won and lost by racing. If a team needs to get a driver in front they do it by strategy or can advise the driver who has to concede and let him make his own decision.


Wrong. In every aspect of your opinion. What is Mclaren, Ferrari, Redbull, Force India etc? A TEAM. That means two drivers working for what is the best result for the team. In situation of championships, its crucial that team orders are enforced. Anyone who says Formula 1 is pure racing are utter idiots. This is a sport where lesser teams wave championship leaders by, a sport where teammates are discouraged from racing, a sport where teammates are asked to hold the field up, to act as a rear gunner for one or the other, a sport where customer teams wave their parent teams by.

Formula 1 is about racing your rivals, not your own teammates. Otherwise, why is it not single car entries? Why dont we have 22 teams instead of 11 teams then? You work for the best interest of the team. If they feel it is to hold station, so be it. If they feel it is to let by the better driver, so be it. Whether i agree with the act, whether I agree with the timing doesn't matter. I will complaing about it if i feel its unjust for ANY driver and ANY team. However, I will not berate the team for using team orders because its a principle I firmly believe in and is cemented in Formula 1 history.

Lest we forget Britain got its first WDC through team orders. Lest we forget Coulthard and Hakkinen had gentleman agreements of who goes into the corner first wins (not exactly abided to on the finns side). Lest we forget a certain WDC son threatening to take himself and his teammate out if he tries to overtake him in a certain Belgian GP driving a lovely yellow car. lest we forget Senna and Prost's problems were through the lack of team orders and enforcing them. Same with Alonso/Hamilton. Team orders cost both the WDC because they didn't implement them.

There is no such thing as racing your teammate as it often goes wrong. Had Vettel and Webber lost the WDC because of turkey 2010, would you not wish you called team orders for one or the other? Exactly.

If your after pure racing and disagree with team orders, stop watching Formula 1. Your lying to yourself about what it is. This sport is born on team orders, its fundamental to many world drivers championships. It has never been about 'pure racing' in the slightest.


its a nice sentiment, but how can you police it? An early pit stop, change of strategy, 'driver error', going wide, not defending..... all ways of masking team orders. Its just impossible.

I mean look at 2008, German Gp. Heikki waved lewis through after being told that lewis is approaching and is faster. Team orders were banned but, the team didn't ask him to move, Heikki said he did it off his own back. Its just impossible to police.
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 Post subject: Re: Team Orders
PostPosted: 27 May 2013, 14:42  
PL Manager
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Joined: 06 Jun 2011, 14:59
Posts: 1696
Country: Egypt (eg)
Yea you can't control that sorta thing... Team order makes sense because the drivers are after all part of a team. Banned or not, its going to happen either way...

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 Post subject: Re: Team Orders
PostPosted: 27 May 2013, 16:47  
F1 Routinier
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008, 15:27
Posts: 4110
Location: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
tderias wrote:
Yea you can't control that sorta thing... Team order makes sense because the drivers are after all part of a team. Banned or not, its going to happen either way...


Just ask Kimi how he secured his world title. Oh hai massa having an extremely early pit stop from the lead.
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