Team Orders

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mnmracer
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Re: Team Orders

Post by mnmracer » 28 Mar 2013, 07:56

mikhailv wrote:
mnmracer wrote:Have you actually watched the race?

No I haven't.

I figured as much.

Then there is no point going on about something you don't know about.
I will end with a quote from Phil's race report:
A poor start by Felipe Massa meant that it was now Mercedes, not Ferrari, who emerged as Red Bull’s number one challengers.

Webber was slowly reeled in by Vettel, who was likewise being caught by the Mercedes of Hamilton and Rosberg.

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François
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Re: Team Orders

Post by François » 28 Mar 2013, 08:31

Somebody get them a room.
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mikhailv
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Re: Team Orders

Post by mikhailv » 28 Mar 2013, 09:20

mnmracer wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
mnmracer wrote:Have you actually watched the race?

No I haven't.

I figured as much.

Then there is no point going on about something you don't know about.
I will end with a quote from Phil's race report:
A poor start by Felipe Massa meant that it was now Mercedes, not Ferrari, who emerged as Red Bull’s number one challengers.

Webber was slowly reeled in by Vettel, who was likewise being caught by the Mercedes of Hamilton and Rosberg.



Oh really?

mikhailv wrote:
mnmracer wrote:Have you actually watched the race?


No I havn't. Ignore the posts in the race thread discussing it with other members live though. Have you read the post and the contradiction of what your saying? because you claimed Vettel obeyed team orders to stay behind Webber when Hamilton was chasing him, but opted to ignore them when they were miles ahead, claiming 'if you dont agree with your bosses you go against them'. Well, what better time to disagree when your being hunted down by Lewis Hamilton as opposed to being scot free and told to bring the car home?

Doesnt make sense.


Sorry to rain on your parade there pal but it was sarcasm. Plain old sarcasm, as the bold part of the quote shows. But don't worry because it just proves your skim read the points you want to read.

And so what if Mercedes were 'reeling in redbull'. At that time, lewis was being asked to manage tyres and fuel whilst Nico was told to push all the way to the end. Redbull would've heard. They didn't panic. Webber upped his pace.

Anyway, because your blatantly ignoring the point ill put it in bold.

YOUR statement, was that Vettel chose to 'ignore his bosses team orders [at the end of the race] because he didn't agree with them' correct? So, IF Vettel was faster, WHY DID HE NOT OVERTAKE WEBBER? If he had all this speed behind him, WHY would he not 'ignore his bosses team orders because he didn't agree with them' back then? Well? You've avoided the question twice now. He didn't agree earlier in the race when he was 'so' much faster. So why didn't he go against team orders then?

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mnmracer
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Re: Team Orders

Post by mnmracer » 28 Mar 2013, 09:27

mikhailv wrote:IF Vettel was faster, WHY DID HE NOT OVERTAKE WEBBER?

I have answered that already.
All you have done in reply is lie about Hamilton not being a threat.

You can warp reality to whatever fits your agenda, but very few people actually think that Webber was faster than Vettel.
How about you first come to terms with the facts that are on the table, and then consider if what you say is sensible.

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Re: Team Orders

Post by mikhailv » 28 Mar 2013, 10:53

mnmracer wrote:
mikhailv wrote:IF Vettel was faster, WHY DID HE NOT OVERTAKE WEBBER?

I have answered that already.
All you have done in reply is lie about Hamilton not being a threat.

You can warp reality to whatever fits your agenda, but very few people actually think that Webber was faster than Vettel.
How about you first come to terms with the facts that are on the table, and then consider if what you say is sensible.



You answered nothing! youve proven nothing! Why would vettel obey orders before the last round of stops but not after. You cant answer your hypocritical post. simple as.

And as said before; hamilton hunting vettel was told to watch tyres and fuel. rosberg to push. RBR played the long game. Not jumping and overreacting like Ferrari did in 2010 abu dhabi.

So for the last time; why would vettel obey in a situation of danger but not obey in a situation of safety?

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Re: Team Orders

Post by mnmracer » 28 Mar 2013, 11:03

mikhailv wrote:
mnmracer wrote:
mikhailv wrote:IF Vettel was faster, WHY DID HE NOT OVERTAKE WEBBER?

I have answered that already.
All you have done in reply is lie about Hamilton not being a threat.

You can warp reality to whatever fits your agenda, but very few people actually think that Webber was faster than Vettel.
How about you first come to terms with the facts that are on the table, and then consider if what you say is sensible.



You answered nothing! youve proven nothing! Why would vettel obey orders before the last round of stops but not after. You cant answer your hypocritical post. simple as.

And as said before; hamilton hunting vettel was told to watch tyres and fuel. rosberg to push. RBR played the long game. Not jumping and overreacting like Ferrari did in 2010 abu dhabi.

So for the last time; why would vettel obey in a situation of danger but not obey in a situation of safety?

You should probably ask Phil to rewrite the race report then.

AS I SAID, at the time of the first teamorder (why would you give a teamorder to a slower driver to hold back :huh: ) the team suggested that he would get his chance ("only halfway through the race"), so there is no reason to break that teamorder as long as Webber speeds up enough to stay ahead of Hamilton. By the time of the second teamorder, it got obvious that they screwed Vettel, as he was never given a chance to fight for the win. Lap 24 (don't overtake). Lap 42 (don't overtake).

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Re: Team Orders

Post by F1EA » 28 Mar 2013, 16:57

Ah team orders... that's how you bring the people together.

RB asked their drivers to tune down AFTER they figured Merc was no threat. By that time they knew they had pace in both cars to answer Merc if they threatened.

For RB, the extra risk was not worth letting Vettel go for it. While for Merc... it just made no sense. Nico had some extra pace, while Lewis had very little room. While any threat from behind Lewis would have been the same because they held Nico, the faster car at the moment.

Webber still had room. Whether Vettel would have been able with both pushing.. who cares. That's the risk RB didnt want to take at P1 and P2. Mercedes were a bit over conservative.

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mikhailv
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Re: Team Orders

Post by mikhailv » 28 Mar 2013, 18:00

mnmracer wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
mnmracer wrote:
mikhailv wrote:IF Vettel was faster, WHY DID HE NOT OVERTAKE WEBBER?

I have answered that already.
All you have done in reply is lie about Hamilton not being a threat.

You can warp reality to whatever fits your agenda, but very few people actually think that Webber was faster than Vettel.
How about you first come to terms with the facts that are on the table, and then consider if what you say is sensible.



You answered nothing! youve proven nothing! Why would vettel obey orders before the last round of stops but not after. You cant answer your hypocritical post. simple as.

And as said before; hamilton hunting vettel was told to watch tyres and fuel. rosberg to push. RBR played the long game. Not jumping and overreacting like Ferrari did in 2010 abu dhabi.

So for the last time; why would vettel obey in a situation of danger but not obey in a situation of safety?

You should probably ask Phil to rewrite the race report then.

AS I SAID, at the time of the first teamorder (why would you give a teamorder to a slower driver to hold back :huh: ) the team suggested that he would get his chance ("only halfway through the race"), so there is no reason to break that teamorder as long as Webber speeds up enough to stay ahead of Hamilton. By the time of the second teamorder, it got obvious that they screwed Vettel, as he was never given a chance to fight for the win. Lap 24 (don't overtake). Lap 42 (don't overtake).


Why rewrite? Hamilton was catching them. As acknowledge twice now. But its countered by RBR not over reacting, and the fact that Hamilton was being told to be wary of tyres and not to push, whereas Rosberg was told to go all out to the end.

And like I said, why did Vettel follow team orders when he was under threat but so much faster than Webber, yet, when there was no threat, he disobeyed team orders?

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Re: Team Orders

Post by Gwilo » 29 Mar 2013, 12:33

I think David Coulthard said it best...

"You can micro-analyse it all you want, but Vettel was given an instruction. He disobeyed it. He has recognised it and he has apologised for it."

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Re: Team Orders

Post by iceman1 » 29 Mar 2013, 12:46

But what if Vettel wins the championship by 7 points from Webber?

:zz:

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mnmracer
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Re: Team Orders

Post by mnmracer » 29 Mar 2013, 12:54

iceman1 wrote:But what if Vettel wins the championship by 7 points from Webber?

:zz:

Then Webber will have written history, considering he's never been closer than 14 points :cool:

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Re: Team Orders

Post by angle grinder » 29 Mar 2013, 13:19

Maybe Vettels actions are the thoughts of most drivers, and most spectators. The drivers should be racing to win. so indirectly they help the team. Competition between two team mates is exciting, Its upto there ability to keep themselves on the track. If Vettel gets away with an apology, he has extra points. So its worth disobeying the team to bank points. Against in house rules. So maybe there should be FIA rule to sort this out in favour of motor racing and not team orders.

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Re: Team Orders

Post by tderias » 29 Mar 2013, 14:16

No rules can stop team orders. We've seen that in the past.

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mikhailv
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Re: Team Orders

Post by mikhailv » 29 Mar 2013, 15:19

Gwilo wrote:I think David Coulthard said it best...

"You can micro-analyse it all you want, but Vettel was given an instruction. He disobeyed it. He has recognised it and he has apologised for it."


Yeah but his apology is akin to Tony Hayward's mick take on south park;



Its about meaning it and understanding why you are apologising. Vettel doesn't mean his apology and is only doing it to save face, not because its genuine. Can imagine a Vettel montage like that :P

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Re: Team Orders

Post by mikhailv » 29 Mar 2013, 15:23

mnmracer wrote:
iceman1 wrote:But what if Vettel wins the championship by 7 points from Webber?

:zz:

Then Webber will have written history, considering he's never been closer than 14 points :cool:


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