Team Orders

[angle grinder]

I loved the racing last year. It seemed to go right to the wire. That is what makes the difference in F1. Its bad enough when the leaders are minutes apart. I was gutted that on the second race we have team orders. What a disgrace. Is Lewis Hamilton dictating to the merc team. Is it in his contract to wreck F1. Give me Sebastian Vettels attitude any time. The best part of the race , the last laps, and they are processional. Pathetic. We need rules for this.

[kals]

If you don't like team orders then why are you watching F1?

Team orders is and has been part of the sport since it began.

[angle grinder]

If you don't like team orders then why are you watching F1?

Team orders is and has been part of the sport since it began.

After the second race?
I thought it only happened in the last couple of races of a season. And I still dont like it then. But I love racing. Is that not formula one. Or is it won in the pits and all that. The latest rules seem to encourage racing which is great. Something is not right so early in season. They should be made to race, if they cant keep it on the track , there not good enough.

[kals]

Team orders happen at what ever stage of the season the team decides. Team orders are embedded in the history of F1.

[mikhailv]

Team orders are fine. Its always been in F1.

The grievance for me comes with this; either define your drivers, say theyre equal and then both should respect 'just bring it home' as saying 'look guys, youve raced for 40 odd laps, X driver has done a better job, so bring the cars home as they are'. If they said Webber was 2nd driver, then I'd be happy for Vettel to overtake. Instead, there is a false 'oh the drivers are so equal' PR bulls**.

Team orders come from the start of the season at certain teams. To me, 'hold station' in the last phase of a race, is common sense not a team order. Theres no need to go all out on each other just bring it home. UNLESS one driver is in the title fight with a better chance than the other.

The team order at Mercedes is a different story. Lewis was nursing a problem quite frankly, Rosberg shouldve been let past. Its simple as. Why? Because its not team orders letting your teammate go because your nursing a problem. Its team orders keeping the teammate behind.

So for me, its all in the definition of what is a true team order. Do I find 'hold station' as a team order at the end of a grand prix? No. I dont. Its common practice. BMW used to enforce it on Kubica/Heifeld. Do i find forcing a teammate to stay behind a mechanically problematic car wrong? Yeah. Theres no reason to keep Rosberg behind because of lewis' mechanical fault. If RBR's crashed into each other when Vettel disobeyed, then they lose 43 points. Simple.

Problem with Webber and Vettel, is that they cant be trusted to race each other. Vettel has shown he'll crash into Webber (because he isn't a great overtaker), Webber has shown how hard he will be on Vettel. This is why RBR just said Multi-21.

[angle grinder]

Team orders are fine. Its always been in F1.

The grievance for me comes with this; either define your drivers, say theyre equal and then both should respect 'just bring it home' as saying 'look guys, youve raced for 40 odd laps, X driver has done a better job, so bring the cars home as they are'. If they said Webber was 2nd driver, then I'd be happy for Vettel to overtake. Instead, there is a false 'oh the drivers are so equal' PR bulls**.

Team orders come from the start of the season at certain teams. To me, 'hold station' in the last phase of a race, is common sense not a team order. Theres no need to go all out on each other just bring it home. UNLESS one driver is in the title fight with a better chance than the other.

The team order at Mercedes is a different story. Lewis was nursing a problem quite frankly, Rosberg shouldve been let past. Its simple as. Why? Because its not team orders letting your teammate go because your nursing a problem. Its team orders keeping the teammate behind.

So for me, its all in the definition of what is a true team order. Do I find 'hold station' as a team order at the end of a grand prix? No. I dont. Its common practice. BMW used to enforce it on Kubica/Heifeld. Do i find forcing a teammate to stay behind a mechanically problematic car wrong? Yeah. Theres no reason to keep Rosberg behind because of lewis' mechanical fault. If RBR's crashed into each other when Vettel disobeyed, then they lose 43 points. Simple.

Problem with Webber and Vettel, is that they cant be trusted to race each other. Vettel has shown he'll crash into Webber (because he isn't a great overtaker), Webber has shown how hard he will be on Vettel. This is why RBR just said Multi-21.

I have watched F1 since mansell. F1 went through some boring stuff as a spectator. I have rallied cars for 8 years along time ago, so I understand that will to win. The motor racing is getting very good to watch, so when this sort of thing happens so early in the season, it could become a wash out. I dont remember team orders this early. I understand if a title is at stake. But who to say those points lost to Rosberg or anyone else could not be vital at the end. They all really looked like they enjoyed the end to that race, not.

[kals]

You don't remember team orders this early. How about McLaren, Albert Park 1998 or Ferrari, Albert Park 2000?

[kals]

Team orders are fine. Its always been in F1.

The grievance for me comes with this; either define your drivers, say theyre equal and then both should respect 'just bring it home' as saying 'look guys, youve raced for 40 odd laps, X driver has done a better job, so bring the cars home as they are'. If they said Webber was 2nd driver, then I'd be happy for Vettel to overtake. Instead, there is a false 'oh the drivers are so equal' PR bulls**.

This

[tderias]

Problem with Webber and Vettel, is that they cant be trusted to race each other. Vettel has shown he'll crash into Webber (because he isn't a great overtaker), Webber has shown how hard he will be on Vettel. This is why RBR just said Multi-21.

I think apart from a couple incidents in 2010, we've seen enough overtakes from Seb to prove otherwise

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I'm no big fan of team orders, and I don't see their point really. These guys are big boys, they know how to race and they know what's on stake. If they mess it up, as the OP said, they're not good enough.

Didn't McLaren give proper driver equality with Lewis and Jenson? I remembered races where they were allowed to race at the latter stages of the race. Whitmarsh was all worried and on the edge, but they were still allowed to race.

It's proof that the system works, given you've got drivers that are mature enough to know what they're dealing with...

[mikhailv]

Problem with Webber and Vettel, is that they cant be trusted to race each other. Vettel has shown he'll crash into Webber (because he isn't a great overtaker), Webber has shown how hard he will be on Vettel. This is why RBR just said Multi-21.

I think apart from a couple incidents in 2010, we've seen enough overtakes from Seb to prove otherwise

--

I'm no big fan of team orders, and I don't see their point really. These guys are big boys, they know how to race and they know what's on stake. If they mess it up, as the OP said, they're not good enough.

Didn't McLaren give proper driver equality with Lewis and Jenson? I remembered races where they were allowed to race at the latter stages of the race. Whitmarsh was all worried and on the edge, but they were still allowed to race.

It's proof that the system works, given you've got drivers that are mature enough to know what they're dealing with...

See, to me, we haven't. Id like to see him race against Alonso and Hamilton. Everyone raving about abu dhabi for instance, well, aside from such a clear car advanatage, his pass on Grosjean was good, but he didnt do anything else. His pass on Button was lauded but aside from the tyre advantage, Jenson is a c**p racer anyway. Just look at how he couldnt overtake Schumacher in 2010, Catalunya.

To me, Jenson and Vettel are two of the same. On their day, they can be supreme drivers. But to me, I dont see them as racers.

[François]

Team orders are and have been a part of F1 for eons, but are they necessary? Having followed MotoGP for a few years, I very much doubt it. The very thought of team orders in MotoGP is laughable, and as a result, some great intra-team rivalries build up and (for the most part) get settled on the track. Much unlike F1 team bosses, MotoGP chiefs aren't under the delusion that they can babysit their riders any longer once the red lights go out. Imagine trying to implement a multi 21 with Rossi and Lorenzo...

This means more headaches for the team bosses, but better spectacle for the fans. Better sport. Less talking, and more racing. Deep down I want to see wheel-to-wheel racing and I don't care if Mr Mateschitz craps his pants. The "need" for team orders is no more than the team bosses' need to maximize results. It shouldn't come into play, not at the expense of the spectacle at least.

There is only one top spot on the podium. If you want a team sport, please watch soccer.

[phil1993]

This is a very good article (It's behind a paywall)
http://plus.autosport.com/premium/featu ... l-created/

The whole 'Vettel can't overtake' argument is a myth. Is he as good in that respect as Hamilton or Alonso? Probably not. But he's no slouch. Button's racecraft is exceptional as well.

[Gwilo]

Team orders have always been contentious, if your favourite driver benefits from them you might, begrudgingly, accept them but lets face it, they only ever influence two cars and ''normally'' only ever decide two positions, unless, of course, the team asks you to crash into someone else (Singapore a few years ago) The decision by Mercedes in Malaysia does seem ludicrous and it always seems a bit silly when team orders are deployed this early in the season but they must have good reasons for doing it, mustn't they?

[Ether]

I think team orders on both driver and both teams (Red Bull and Mercedes) are correct. They both ordered to all drivers to Multi 21, or HOLD POSITION. Why? whether or not discussing about who is number one, I believe every teams had their own concern.. Red Bull was Pirelli Tyres concern, meanwhile Mercedes was more about Fuel insufficient on Hamilton, and also probably Pirelli Tyres.

Letting Rosberg pass in order, also means TEAM ORDERS, it doesn't reflect anything what we wanted, RACING. We saw some racing between Hamilton and Button in Mclaren, that was RACING, no team orders (maybe in some GP there was team orders). So if we hope to see Rosberg passing Hamilton, that wouldn't be for free too though, as we said, racing... IF Hamilton racing Rosberg in terms of defending on straight finish line, it would have consumed more and more fuel, which means, Rosberg podium might cost 12 worthy points of Hamilton didn't finish the race. I exceptionally could respect Mercedes call on team order this time.

In Red Bull situation, the situation was a bit different. Even the main situation or concern was more or less the same. Related to reliability issue, and tyre - unknown - situation on degradation. So, interestingly, Red Bulls are accepting Webber should be in front of Vettel because they concern about those situations. This was pretty unusual! We didn't need an Einstein to predict who will finish in front of each other if there were two drivers in front of each other in Red Bull.. We saw it so much in 3 YEARS!
judging any who disobeying team order, Vettel or Webber, okay both are having trouble on team order quite often, especially Webber. Okay, he did disobey pretty much some time ago, but the situation did not "unclear" as to Webber said that he didn't want to stop racing. He wanted to race.. So be prepare - Vettel - !! But in this situation, Vettel was in grudge telling webber to move over by saying he was faster but unfortunately he didn't! and at the final stage, Vettel was in "automatic-mind" after 3 YEARS he felt as a number 1 driver, he just racing Webber! but in terms of nothing to warn to his teammate before the fight! So, I have to say, it was a coward act from Vettel, and pretty much to say, he showed that disrespecting him is particularly reasonable, and now people already start to disrespect him as well.

[mnmracer]

Team orders are fine. Its always been in F1.

The grievance for me comes with this; either define your drivers, say theyre equal and then both should respect 'just bring it home' as saying 'look guys, youve raced for 40 odd laps, X driver has done a better job, so bring the cars home as they are'. If they said Webber was 2nd driver, then I'd be happy for Vettel to overtake. Instead, there is a false 'oh the drivers are so equal' PR bulls**.

This

The problem is though, they didn't let them race for 40 laps.
In lap 24 they told Vettel to hold back "because we're only halfway through the race". Having held back for another 20 laps, and suddenly he's again/still not allowed to fight for the win. That is the biggest problem that was created in Malaysia. Vettel was never given a fair chance.