I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressing!

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Gwilo
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I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressing!

Post by Gwilo » 26 Mar 2013, 08:22

Is F1 progressing, or is it regressing?

I don’t know about anyone else but I’m getting mighty tired of listening to, drivers, team principals and television pundits talking about tyre degradation, not tyre wear but degradation, or tyre deg. As they like to call it and if you think about the antics at the Malaysian GP. Those unsavoury incidents were caused by tyre deg. According to team radio discussions, Hamilton was asked to conserve fuel as well but considering the millions teams spend on collecting and analysing data, this is unthinkable and unforgiveable but the overriding factor is tyres.

Should F1 be governed by tyres? Both RBR and Mercedes considered the race over with more than 15 laps remaining. Yes, we have heard a lot of drivers in the past mention that they were “managing” the gap for the last few laps and that they were not pushing because there was no need to but this is a different phenomenon, both Brawn and Horner stated that they did not know how long the tyres would last, not because of wear but because the tyres would start falling apart.

Is this what Formula one is all about? Drivers pussy footing around a racing circuit, scared to go flat out in case their tyres fall apart? That was what Mark Webber stated at the end of the Malaysian GP that they cannot go flat out and race each other how they would like because of the tyres, or, something along those lines.

Tyre wear was always in the equation but was probably the lowest common denominator, against fuel, power, aero and driver skill (to mention a few) now “tyre deg” are the buzz words, should they be?

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François
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Re: I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressin

Post by François » 26 Mar 2013, 09:59

The racing has become more entertaining and unpredictable thanks to a number of factors that include tyres. I like that, and I don't care if the drivers moan about it.
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kals
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Re: I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressin

Post by kals » 26 Mar 2013, 14:38

Gwilo wrote:Is this what Formula one is all about? Drivers pussy footing around a racing circuit, scared to go flat out in case their tyres fall apart?
That is what F1 has been about for decades. And I don't just mean about the tyres. It hasn't always been about who is fastest but who manages their equipment, their fuel consumption, their tyres, brakes, gearbox, everything, etc... the best.

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Re: I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressin

Post by tderias » 26 Mar 2013, 16:00

kals wrote:
Gwilo wrote:Is this what Formula one is all about? Drivers pussy footing around a racing circuit, scared to go flat out in case their tyres fall apart?
That is what F1 has been about for decades. And I don't just mean about the tyres. It hasn't always been about who is fastest but who manages their equipment, their fuel consumption, their tyres, brakes, gearbox, everything, etc... the best.
Sure F1 has always been about thinking, not just raw pace, but these Pirellis have raised it up to a whole new level. If Schumacher says it's become too much, then it probably has, because he used to race in a different era, and knows how hard they used to push back then compared to how they tip-toe around a track these days.

Not against the Pirellis whatsoever, just stating that they're definitely playing a bigger role in the driver's mind than anything else has ever done.

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kals
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Re: I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressin

Post by kals » 26 Mar 2013, 16:20

With little to no unreliability there is little to manage, so I like the fact that Pirelli have engineered the tyres in the way they have. It is pretty artificial but at least it's created excitement and uncertainty.

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François
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Re: I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressin

Post by François » 26 Mar 2013, 16:44

tderias wrote:If Schumacher says it's become too much, then it probably has, because he used to race in a different era, and knows how hard they used to push back then compared to how they tip-toe around a track these days.
Besides, he's absolutely not bitter about not winning anymore whatsoever. :roll::
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tderias
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Re: I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressin

Post by tderias » 26 Mar 2013, 16:54

François wrote:
tderias wrote:If Schumacher says it's become too much, then it probably has, because he used to race in a different era, and knows how hard they used to push back then compared to how they tip-toe around a track these days.
Besides, he's absolutely not bitter about not winning anymore whatsoever. :roll::
I find it quite difficult to believe that he is. He's the most successful driver F1 has seen, what more does he need to prove? He's said he's back for the fun of it, and I find that much easier to believe...

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Re: I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressin

Post by kals » 26 Mar 2013, 17:00

Schumi's entire era (bar 2 seasons) was during the refuelling phase of F1. So all he really knows is pushing 100% for each and every stint. While I respect his opinion on the state of Pirelli's tyres, I don't believe he is entirely right.

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Re: I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressin

Post by mikhailv » 26 Mar 2013, 17:48

To me, the best days were the tyre wars, 2005 to be specific. If Bridgestone could make a better tyre, then the no tyre stop race, no refuelling just pure blistering pace. If you make a sever mistake, you do a Kimi and break your suspension. Otherwise, its just pure outright edge of the limit non stop.

Unfortuntaly, that wouldnt produce close racing.

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François
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Re: I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressin

Post by François » 26 Mar 2013, 18:42

tderias wrote:I find it quite difficult to believe that he is. He's the most successful driver F1 has seen, what more does he need to prove? He's said he's back for the fun of it, and I find that much easier to believe...
Sorry but if you're here for the fun then you shouldn't even be on the grid.

Also 100% ^5 what kals said.
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Re: I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressin

Post by phil1993 » 26 Mar 2013, 18:47

It's like how F1 has always been. I think 4 stops is one too many, but that's because Sepang is a high wear track and it's early in the season. The only thing I'd change is DRS; I'm not sure if it's needed.

People like to think it's a lottery, but look at the race results. Marussia isn't lucking into race wins, Red Bull aren't struggling to 15th place.

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Re: I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressin

Post by mikhailv » 26 Mar 2013, 20:45

phil1993 wrote:It's like how F1 has always been. I think 4 stops is one too many, but that's because Sepang is a high wear track and it's early in the season. The only thing I'd change is DRS; I'm not sure if it's needed.

People like to think it's a lottery, but look at the race results. Marussia isn't lucking into race wins, Red Bull aren't struggling to 15th place.
Exactly! People said that last year but the only wildcard was Maldanado. Webber, Alonso, Vettel, Button and Hamilton. Mclaren, RBR, Ferrari. They took victories in the whole 6 out of 7 winners. Then we had Raikkonen.

Can anyone with a straight face say they were surprised by anyone but Maldanado winning? Best drivers, best teams won. It just happened that each race a different driver of those teams took advantage of the situation.

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Re: I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressin

Post by phil1993 » 26 Mar 2013, 20:48

Indeed. Everything came together in that race, but even so the FW34 was a strong car and Maldonado showed strong qualifying pace in Barcelona in the awful FW33 (2011).

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Re: I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressin

Post by kals » 26 Mar 2013, 22:53

mikhailv wrote:To me, the best days were the tyre wars, 2005 to be specific. If Bridgestone could make a better tyre, then the no tyre stop race, no refuelling just pure blistering pace. If you make a sever mistake, you do a Kimi and break your suspension. Otherwise, its just pure outright edge of the limit non stop.
2005 was very good for the reasons you mention. 1997 was another very good year, where Bridgestone had just entered and pushed Goodyear to the limit.

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Re: I’m not sure that I really like the way F1 is progressin

Post by Gwilo » 27 Mar 2013, 01:47

So it's only me then... :blush:

Interesting replies, for quite a few years now they have been trying to make F1 more of a spectacle because (I guess) it can no longer stand on it's own but it is a fact that the raw racing is not really there and has not been for quite a while. Whilst I appreciate the efforts (to make it more of a spectacle) it does seem to have had "almost" the reverse effect. The tyres are that bad everyone is having to nurse them and the whole thing now seems to revolve around them, this is what I don't like. And IMHO the whole team orders debate, now waging on every motor sports site that I have visited (even Mark Webber's Dad is getting in on it ha ha) stems from those stupid tyres.

We'll see how it pans out over the season but I think that "maybe" people are drawn to, or are watching the sport for the wrong reasons! Even I and I've been watching Formula One since before Senna entered the fray and am now waiting to see if there will be any reprisals in China, or subsequent races.

They say "what goes round comes around" We will see....

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