It is currently 25 Sep 2017, 06:12

All times are UTC




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 1655 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36 ... 111  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013, 19:27  
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 17:32
Posts: 25503
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
You're right, they didn't make as many. But I disagree with you there about not impressing.

Grosjean took three podiums in effectively his rookie season. Maldonado shone at Monaco in his sixth race and won in his second season.

_________________
F1Zone.net News
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013, 19:53  
GP2 Driver
User avatar

Joined: 23 May 2008, 16:13
Posts: 442
Location: Hannover
Country: Germany (de)
mikhailv wrote:
personally, the last Pure driver we had in F1 who had mass talent, was Kubica.

I think Kubica participated in Renault's driver development program and was picked up by BMW because Renault already had Alonso/Fisichella/Kovalainen/Piquet Jr. and were not allowed to use a third car in Friday practice sessions.
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013, 19:55  
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 17:32
Posts: 25503
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Kubica was part of Renault but he was dropped I think. I'm sure he was part of them around 2003 time.

_________________
F1Zone.net News
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013, 20:57  
F1 Routinier
User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008, 15:27
Posts: 4110
Location: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
phil1993 wrote:
You're right, they didn't make as many. But I disagree with you there about not impressing.

Grosjean took three podiums in effectively his rookie season. Maldonado shone at Monaco in his sixth race and won in his second season.


Yeah they did alright, but does that outweigh Grosjeans 7 accidents, and Maldanado's accidents and penalties through the season? Thats the problem, Maldanado's win was brilliant. but his subsequent performances were rubbish. he scored 20 points the rest of the season after his win and he only beat senna by 14 points which, if you think, he got 25 in one haul..... the car was capable of much more through the season.

Same with Grosjean, he had far too many accidents. Im glad he's got this year, and I hope he changes because like Maldanado, I think theyre something good, but what is the cost of their success? Right now, its large amounts of accidents and/or penalties as a result of it. Thats the problem.
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013, 21:12  
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 17:32
Posts: 25503
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Part of it is F1's penalty happy world as every minor incident gets penalised.

Grosjean did have a lot of accidents, although some of them weren't his fault. Maldonado was brilliant, and I agree he should have done more. But lest we forget he also lost points in Singapore and Abu Dhabi when the car failed.

_________________
F1Zone.net News
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013, 21:23  
F1 Rookie
User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2013, 14:41
Posts: 533
Country: United States (us)
Maldonado wasn't brilliant, far from it. He showed flashes of greatness but was more often than not mired in silly mistakes and didn't show any hope of improving until after Grosjean's ban.

Grosjean was much better and quicker (IMO), but then again had a stronger team (and team mate) around him to help him along. Sadly he was too often making errors or getting caught up in other people's errors.
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013, 21:52  
PL Manager
User avatar

Joined: 06 Jun 2011, 14:59
Posts: 1696
Country: Egypt (eg)
Maldonado won a race on pure pace, in a car which is average at best as shown throughout the rest of the season, with his teammate getting nowhere near him.

He had one chance to win a race, with intense pressure from Alonso, and he duly took that chance. Calling that brilliant does not even do it justice.

_________________
My blog: http://f1andthat.wordpress.com/
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013, 22:00  
F1 Rookie
User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2013, 14:41
Posts: 533
Country: United States (us)
While I agree about the Barcelona race performance I'm analysing Maldonado across the entire season. Senna may not have been able to match his team-mate's qualifying speed, but come race day was more often than not the one who bagged points for Williams. That says a lot considering Senna often started races in the mid-teens on the grid compared to the top 10 for Pastor.

If Maldonado can temper that incredulous temptation to hit things, moving or stationnary, and turn speed into actual results then he could be brilliant.
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013, 03:50  
F1 Rookie
User avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2012, 18:39
Posts: 572
Country: Canada (ca)
Grosjean is a massive 'raw' talent. Unfortunately, F1 has no patience so this yr is probably his last chance to prove himself. Tough teammate and the pressure of a solid team are not easy, but he was very good in his career, so he should cope with this...

As for the midfield and back-grid teams, they have no choice but to ensure survival. If it's true a great car can make a mediocre driver stand out, they are probably playing that card. However, it seems something in the other direction is more likely to be true...... so to me this current scheme has a very short life ahead.

Maybe when the Hamilton/Vettel effect dies out, teams will return to having more realistic expectations of rookies; or teams will have to re-inforce home brewed drivers.

Maldonado has only retained his seat for so long because of his $ input.... but without this due time, his win would have never happened. Senna did not share the same conditions, so comparing them is useless.

It may be Senna never races again, and i have to say he got a tough hand to deal. Grosjean was lucky. I think he is very good, i think better than Senna; quite possibly wdc material. But he struck a lucky nerve, cause F1 was VERY patient with him..... had he been in a HRT or Caterham or in similar conditions as Senna, he'd be gone bye-bye.

A few more weeks to go!! :)
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013, 08:10  
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 17:32
Posts: 25503
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Maldonado is quick, but I agree that he needs to transfer this into results. It'll be interesting to see how he rates against Bottas, who Williams rate even higher.

I think also now it's more competitive than ever. If you're 0.5s down on your team-mate, that could be the difference between 8th and 16th; in the mid-90s or even early-00s, that might be just a place or two on the grid.

With Senna, it's a strange case. He showed some good qualifying pace towards the back end of 2011 but it never clicked in 2012. He's not a bad racer but his poor qualifying left him involved in a lot of Lap 1 shunts. I also don't buy the excuse that losing FP1 cost him, because even when he was in the car for FP1 he didn't do any better.

----

Germany's SpeedWeek is reporting that former Ferrari and FIA man Gilles Simon - who also worked on Pollock's abortive PURE programme - is working on a 2014 Honda engine.

_________________
F1Zone.net News
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013, 12:49  
F1 Routinier
User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2007, 17:52
Posts: 4007
Location: Kent
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Cue McLaren-Honda rumours. :p

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2013/02/ ... act-study/

They should learn their lesson pretty quick if they're struggling to attract custom. But it's useful for fans looking to go to a race who don't want to sleep in a bag in a field to know. I stayed in a Hotel in the Netherlands when I went to Spa.

_________________
http://i40.tinypic.com/2w7fw9v.jpg
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013, 13:02  
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 17:32
Posts: 25503
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Yeah, I was in Leuven with Spa, which is half the country away.

I think the journalists usually stay in Nice with Monaco and Dubai with Abu Dhabi. It's ridiculous.

Also, there's yet another magazine?
http://www.formulamagazine.co.uk/

_________________
F1Zone.net News
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013, 13:18  
F1 Rookie
User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2013, 14:41
Posts: 533
Country: United States (us)
How many lap one incidents was Senna involved in Phil? You make it sound like many.

From memory...

Australia - assaulted by one or two STRs at turn one, not his fault
Malaysia - touched Maldonado, his fault
China - had minor contact with someone (Maldonado?) resulting in no damage, no-one's fault
Germany - caught up in the aftermath of T1 Massa's idiocy and had contact with Grosjean towards hairpin, anyone's fault??

What am I missing Phil?
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013, 13:25  
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 17:32
Posts: 25503
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
There's those plus he was involved with Rosberg in Japan as well as the Force India's in Abu Dhabi. Collided with Vettel in Brazil as well - which was actually the only one which caused his retirement.

I'm not saying they're all his fault, but when you regularly qualifying mired in the lower part of the midfield, there's a higher chance of accident damage.

_________________
F1Zone.net News
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013, 13:52  
F1 Rookie
User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2013, 14:41
Posts: 533
Country: United States (us)
Good points, I'd forgotten about those three, although (and I know this isn't your point) none of those extra ones were really Bruno's fault.

Japan, everyone was avoiding Grosjean's incident with Webber and was also amazed that Bruno was given a penalty
Abu Dhabi, silly driving by the FI's, Hulk especially
Brazil, Vettel not looking around him and was extremely lucky with the outcome of the contact
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 1655 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36 ... 111  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
Jump to:  
cron

F1Zone.net is proudly powered by phpBB