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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2013, 10:12  
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It's very difficult to say which car has been second best but I don't think Alonso did anything extraordinary at Spa or Monza - his advantage is making every little bit count. He was 2nd when he could have been 3rd at Monza. At Spa, the Ferrari was second best but they dropped the ball in qualifying - nonetheless it was a good recovery.

Everyone bangs on about Alonso's good starts but I believe it has to be an inherent trait within the car - sure, they're very good, but Massa's also made a few cracking starts this year.

Lotus is very good on medium-high downforce circuits but when the grip is lacking they slip into the midfield.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2013, 10:35  
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mikhailv wrote:
Just because Alonso finished 2nd in Monza didn't mean his car was 2nd best, he just did the better job and extracted consistency from it.


No, but look at the top four in that race and tell me which cars were better than the Ferrari. Monza was a good drive, and he nailed a key moment in overtaking Webber, but a miracle? No way. Alonso has driven some amazing races the last couple of years, but I'm tired of him and his fans thinking he does it every race.

The Mercedes spent half a season chewing its tyres. Like Phil says Lotus have had some uncompetitive races. So is it really that amazing that a Ferrari driver is second? I don't think so.

I still think the Alonso of 2013 has lacked the edge of the Alonso of 2012. He's not been massively worse, but there have just been little moments where I've thought it. I think we may well look back in a few years time and say 2012 was Alonso's peak.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2013, 11:23  
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Oh he did nothing extraordinary. To be honest he nails his starts and thats it. The ferrari is a fast starting car. Race over with from then on really.

The lotus does suffer but then I dont see either of the drivers on the limit or overperforming the car. I expect Alonso to be second because in that Ferrari he is better than all but Vettels RBR.

I wouldnt say 2012 was his peak, the more I look back and the more I think it was a case of everyone Making Alonso look better. How many times did everyone falter but he didnt? He just performed at the maximum. Id say he did the same in 2011. Id also say that this year he is doing the same. Malaysia we see as stupid but Nico made it to the pits in korea and he felt the car was better.

I mean, Bahrain to me is his race of the past few seasons. So i dont think it was his peak, others just failed.
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 Post subject: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2013, 19:24  
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Alonso is not doing that much more than the car is capable of. Kinda similar to Kimi. The starts are great, because the car starts great, so the great thing he has been doing consistently is not botching it like Massa has. Massa has very good starts too, except he's binned it at the start more than a couple of times. And everyone knows starting in the midpack makes winning races exponentially tougher, than from front row or at least P3. When was the last time Vettel won a race from outside of a podium Q?

The Kimi dnf in Japan was a total race incident, no mistake from either of them at all. Had Jenson not crowded Alonso (due to the crash ahead) there would have been room and nothing to happen.

Hitting Vettel in Malaysia was a really weird situation, great start as well, but Vettel took the corner ver slow... i mean, he was the one who braked the most out of all the cars... So really, for a driver to do 2 seasons with great starts and very few mistakes IS great. Not that it matters though... I dont know what's the fixation on determining who is the best driver, because F1 has pretty much always been about the best car. Certainly, i don't think the best driver is the guy with the great numbers. I do know who is the best car designer though, inequivocally.
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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2013, 10:37  
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Excellent article here about the RBR traction control emulation. Just a theory, but its extremely smart;

http://jalopnik.com/red-bull-may-have-i ... 1442585020
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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2013, 11:48  
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Interesting article!

But in the Singapore video, does Vettel's engine sounds more like exhaust blowing than kind of TC? . I may be totally wrong but to me, at the middle of the corner it just sound like blown exhaust but he goes "full throttle" at the exit of corner, in the same place as other cars.
The sound I hear is the similar sound I've heared in Monaco where all Renault's car went through la chicane de la Piscine

Also, to me, Webber's car does the same sound, it's just cover by others sound from the field.
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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2013, 12:02  
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It sounds like a mix of both! The valves being cut is like exhaust blowing. His onboards sound quite different too. Webbers car sounds like the Lotus, Caterham and Williams. It has a different note to Vettels,
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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2013, 14:44  
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Some statistics about costs in UK papers today. One eye-watering one is that one race promoter charges $100 for a set of coat hangers - the team in question naturally declined!

Pre-season testing next year will cost $8m according to Force India and they may skip some of it.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2013, 15:13  
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phil1993 wrote:
One eye-watering one is that one race promoter charges $100 for a set of coat hangers - the team in question naturally declined!


The race promoter charges $100 or the team does?
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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2013, 15:14  
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The race promoter.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2013, 15:31  
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And by team you're referring to the race promoter?

What other details can you share?
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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2013, 15:38  
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The team asked the race promoter for the use of coat hangers. The race promoter came back and said that it would cost the team $100.

Another one (this is from the The Times by the way) is that lease of a fridge at least year's Indian GP cost £1,200.

Average cost of setting up at a flyaway race costs $300,000

£446m is paid to the 11 teams, of which 60% goes to the top four.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2013, 16:06  
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So the race promoter charges extortionate rates, because bernie is overpricing the race, so to make money they need to rape both fans and the teams for objects to buy/rent/tickets?

Makes sense as always. Doesnt £446million go to 10 teams not 11 now? So £267,600,000 goes to the top 4, whilst just over £178,000,000 goes to the other 6/7?

Seems legit.
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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2013, 16:16  
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I'm not sure exactly how it gets broken down, because Ferrari then get a historic payment and then you have the column 1/column 2 teams...

But yes, that's how it works. Call me a cynic but I think the reason for Monza charging for shuttle buses this year was because they didn't charge the media for Internet. So they needed to find a way of retaining the money...

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2013, 17:07  
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Silverstone charge for parking aswell dont they? State of finance within the sport is ludicrous.
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