AMG Mercedes | Lewis, Nico and the W04

[phil1993]

So since Lewis confirmed he's joining Britney at Mercedes, the team has failed to score a point. Michael has raced to non-points paying positions, while Nico has been hit by Senna and then KK'ed although points were always going to be hard to achieve.

So with Michael describing the last 2 races as "not totally satisfying", what can they hope to achieve in the remaining four races, can they hold off Sauber and what on earth lies ahead in 2013?

Is this a team that can realistically challenge for titles consistently, or is it a silver version of BAR with Mercedes engines?

[sportingcp]

What I don´t get about this guys is that in 2009, they came out of nowhere and won everything and now that apparently have the conditions to do something they´re not even near the top.

[phil1993]

What I don´t get about this guys is that in 2009, they came out of nowhere and won everything and now that apparently have the conditions to do something they´re not even near the top.

'They came out of nowhere'

- Ross Brawn saw the heap of junk that the 2008 car was going to be, so from the Autumn of 2007 they focused on 2009
- The Double Diffuser was where most of their advantage was. Once Red Bull got theirs working...
- Honda still financially helped the team towards the start of the season

It was a brilliant story for Formula One, but it's the anomaly not the norm. That will be the worry. Take out 2009 and their best position in the championship was 2nd in 2004. After that it was what, 4th in 2006?

But maybe Lewis is hoping that in 2014 they can do what they did in 2009, rather than just taking wins at McLaren.

[KevC]

What I don´t get about this guys is that in 2009, they came out of nowhere and won everything and now that apparently have the conditions to do something they´re not even near the top.

If you mean the Brawn, that was a car that Honda had developed and they had a huge advantage with their diffuser.

I can't see Mercedes doing anything next year but 2014 is anybodies game. They have the money to throw at it but they have to spend it the right way.

[sportingcp]

'They came out of nowhere'

- Ross Brawn saw the heap of junk that the 2008 car was going to be, so from the Autumn of 2007 they focused on 2009
- The Double Diffuser was where most of their advantage was. Once Red Bull got theirs working...
- Honda still financially helped the team towards the start of the season

It was a brilliant story for Formula One, but it's the anomaly not the norm. That will be the worry. Take out 2009 and their best position in the championship was 2nd in 2004. After that it was what, 4th in 2006?

But maybe Lewis is hoping that in 2014 they can do what they did in 2009, rather than just taking wins at McLaren.

That´s my point. Like you said, Brawn and the rest of the team started to work very early in the 2009 car. They found a very good solution (the Diffuser) that made the car very good and they conquer the WDC and the WCC that season. But that couldn´t be just luck. Ross Brawn was already one of the guys who were responsible for that "era" of Ferrari domination, it was more the tactical part not technical but still if they made a car so good in 2009 why can´t they made in all the other seasons with maybe exception to 2004, a competitive car? Not necessairly a dominating car but at least competitive. The Mercedes from the final part of this season for example is a shame probably only the 7th fastest car in race.

[F1EA]

I think the double diffuser was allowed just to spite Honda for leaving.

[phil1993]

Exactly. At the moment, it's clearly Red Bull and Ferrari with the best two cars. McLaren, Lotus, Sauber all have better cars than Mercedes. Probably Force India as well. For a team like that, it's simply not good enough. Doubly so when they started the year with a very quick car in qualifying, less so in the race. They lost *so* many points at the start of 2012 when the car was good.

[donald29]

They had multiple wind tunnels developing the 2009 car taking different directions and seeing what worked. It was monkeys on a typewriter stuff. Eventually one of them would come up with something good.

Their best chance of holding Sauber off is Sauber cocking it up for themselves (most probably thanks to the drivers).

[phil1993]

So Haug has left the team.

Rumours seem to suggest Gerhard Berger is on the way to Brackley.

[Edi96]

AMS reports that Mercedes doesn't look for a Haug-successor because the board thinks they "already have enough chiefs".

[Ferrariman60]

I think Mercedes will have a good opportunity going into 2014. If they pull a Brawn and dump this year's car in favor of putting all of their resources into 2014, they will have a distinct advantage. McLaren may also be in decent shape for 2014 given that they have been unable to mount a championship challenge since 2007 and that Pérez will undoubtedly need a year or so to find his feet with the team. Red Bull and Ferrari however will probably be the championship challengers in 2013, therefore they will not be able to allocate the same resources to the '14 car that teams such as Mercedes and McLaren likely will.

I think 2013 will have the feeling of a sort of "bridge" year. We know big changes are on the horizon and that these changes will require mega investment. Perhaps teams will be conservative with the 2013 cars with 2014 in mind.

[tderias]

Lewis is already in the Mercedes factory. Should have started on 1st of January, but the two teams have reached an agreement last week for him to start immediately.

[Vlad-SRB]

No point in waiting, that's for sure! Smart move, kinda you can expect from young and eager drivers like him, Vettel and maybe even Perez.

[phil1993]

"Brawn unveils something more exciting than Rosberg"

[Alex_f1_baby]

I don't think we should underestimate Mercedes in 2013. They started development on this years car early on in 2012 and have had the remainder of 2012 to judge which direction to go in. They may not be winning any of the championships this season, but I expect regular podiums and maybe a couple of wins. That would be a good season and reassurance to Lewis he has made the right choice. Not that I doubt he has at this point in time.