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Who should replace Felipe Massa for 2012, should such a situation arise?
Sergio Perez 43%  43%  [ 9 ]
Mark Webber 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Jules Bianchi 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Davide Rigon 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Jaime Alguersuari 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Adrian Sutil 24%  24%  [ 5 ]
Jerome d'Ambrosio 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Nico Hulkenberg 14%  14%  [ 3 ]
Paul di Resta 10%  10%  [ 2 ]
Other 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 21
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 Post subject: Re: The future of Ferrari's #2?
PostPosted: 18 May 2012, 23:56  
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donald29 wrote:
Haha you're opening a can of worms there.

BUT ALONSO IS A PAY DRIVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111


Since when bringing sponsors with you makes you a paydriver? I thought paydrivers were people like Yamamoto who actually was a driver who paid for the seat. Am I wrong?

I'm asking this because I'm curious about it. Not that I care if he's really a "paydriver" or not since in the case of Alonso his skills really are a good justification why he's on F1 or why he deserves to be at a top team.
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 Post subject: Re: The future of Ferrari's #2?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 12:11  
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reppo wrote:
Yet Ferrari payed Kimi for 2010 season plus compensation for breaking the contract, and Kimi was laughing all the way to the bank. It wasn't cheap. So money hardly had nothing to do with it.


Because theydesperatly wantedrid. I mean, $20mil to alonso and double that to get kimis clause, means they saw Alonso beingworth $60 mil to get on board, and lets behonest, Alonso has performed miles better than kimi did at ferrari.
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 Post subject: Re: The future of Ferrari's #2?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 12:18  
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True, but with hindsight I'd much prefer Kimi-Fernando at Ferrari...

Kimi was never as good at Ferrari as McLaren. We had the 'Kimi hustle' at McLaren, yet after 2007 he seemed different.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Ferrari's #2?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 12:22  
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Adam wrote:
donald29 wrote:
Haha you're opening a can of worms there.

BUT ALONSO IS A PAY DRIVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111


Since when bringing sponsors with you makes you a paydriver? I thought paydrivers were people like Yamamoto who actually was a driver who paid for the seat. Am I wrong?

I'm asking this because I'm curious about it. Not that I care if he's really a "paydriver" or not since in the case of Alonso his skills really are a good justification why he's on F1 or why he deserves to be at a top team.


I was being sarcastic. :p I don't believe it one bit, but you will find some (only a few!) bitter Raikkonen fans who say Alonso only got his drive because of Santander sponsorship and is therefore a pay driver.

Also Petrov claimed Alonso is one. :p

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Ferrari's #2?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 12:40  
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phil1993 wrote:
True, but with hindsight I'd much prefer Kimi-Fernando at Ferrari...

Kimi was never as good at Ferrari as McLaren. We had the 'Kimi hustle' at McLaren, yet after 2007 he seemed different.


Kimi alonso, or Lewis alonso would be a wet dream in racing terms. Top 3 drivers on the grid IMO. You are guaranteed that, if one fails for some odd reason, the other will be right behind. Mclaren's problem is they could never control ego's whereas Ferrari at least run their shop better; No driver is above the team.

The only previous driver of Mclaren who still has the love in and benefitted from it in their career is Hakkinen. Lewis will leave and will be happier like many, many drivers who left.
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 Post subject: Re: The future of Ferrari's #2?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 13:49  
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mikhailv wrote:
reppo wrote:
Yet Ferrari payed Kimi for 2010 season plus compensation for breaking the contract, and Kimi was laughing all the way to the bank. It wasn't cheap. So money hardly had nothing to do with it.


Because theydesperatly wantedrid. I mean, $20mil to alonso and double that to get kimis clause, means they saw Alonso beingworth $60 mil to get on board, and lets behonest, Alonso has performed miles better than kimi did at ferrari.

Yes, sure. Kimi only got one WDC and two CWCs. But sure if you can't build a car that fits the driver, get a driver that fits to the car. As I have said before, Alonso is much more versatile driver than Kimi, but when the car fits to Kimi he is as good as anybody, otherwise he is just average. I'm very disappointed to Ferrari. Why can't they build a winning car. Year after year they are talking about crucial races where things must change, but nothing changes. Biggest attention in Ferrari gets Massa's future, when they in reality are struggling with the car. The most notable difference to the past is Pirellis, which makes races equally unpredictable to all teams.
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 Post subject: Re: The future of Ferrari's #2?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 14:21  
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mikhailv wrote:
reppo wrote:
Yet Ferrari payed Kimi for 2010 season plus compensation for breaking the contract, and Kimi was laughing all the way to the bank. It wasn't cheap. So money hardly had nothing to do with it.


Because theydesperatly wantedrid. I mean, $20mil to alonso and double that to get kimis clause, means they saw Alonso beingworth $60 mil to get on board, and lets behonest, Alonso has performed miles better than kimi did at ferrari.


True, Alonso is worth 60 million (better than Kimi) & he got the WDC in his first year at Ferrari.
Wait...he didn't. Or he did in 2011, oh no he didn't. Ok he will get in in his 3rd year. :p
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 Post subject: Re: The future of Ferrari's #2?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 14:52  
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icemaid wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
reppo wrote:
Yet Ferrari payed Kimi for 2010 season plus compensation for breaking the contract, and Kimi was laughing all the way to the bank. It wasn't cheap. So money hardly had nothing to do with it.


Because theydesperatly wantedrid. I mean, $20mil to alonso and double that to get kimis clause, means they saw Alonso beingworth $60 mil to get on board, and lets behonest, Alonso has performed miles better than kimi did at ferrari.


True, Alonso is worth 60 million (better than Kimi) & he got the WDC in his first year at Ferrari.
Wait...he didn't. Or he did in 2011, oh no he didn't. Ok he will get in in his 3rd year. :p


Why did kimi win? Mclaren imploded. Lets not beat around the bush. Mclaren lost it through their own stupidity. But your right, it does say something in Ferrari paying $60 million to get alonso onboard and then after his first year giving him a further 5 year contract to sign even though he didn't fluke a world championship in his first year like Kimi. But then again, After a year, Alonso didnt give up and get beaten by a second rate driver!

Whatever makes you kimi fans sleep at night :n :hug:
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 Post subject: Re: The future of Ferrari's #2?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 17:35  
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mikhailv wrote:
Why did kimi win? Mclaren imploded. Lets not beat around the bush. Mclaren lost it through their own stupidity. But your right, it does say something in Ferrari paying $60 million to get alonso onboard and then after his first year giving him a further 5 year contract to sign even though he didn't fluke a world championship in his first year like Kimi. But then again, After a year, Alonso didnt give up and get beaten by a second rate driver!

Whatever makes you kimi fans sleep at night :n :hug:

And what makes Ferrari fans sleep at night. At 2007 and even 2008 Ferrari won CWC with clear marginal. 2009 they were P4, one point behind McLaren, even they practically had only one driver half a season in a car which was no longer developed. 2008 car was a s*** car to Kimi. Luca Baldisserri said it in summer 2008 that with understeering one of our driver can handle it and the other is dead. The dead one wasn't Massa. Now Ferrari has been two years in a row in P3 and currently P4. 2010 Alonso lost WDC by 4 points and last year he was P4, 13 points away from even P2. Yet he goes saying stupid things like in 2010 that it was his best year, or last year:
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-2011-season-best-in-my-life-fernando-alonso/
Quote:
F1: 2011 Season ‘Best In My Life’ - Alonso

At the scene of his 2010 championship failure, Fernando Alonso has refused to acknowledge in Abu Dhabi that this season has also been a bad one.

"This season is the best I've ever done in my life," he is quoted as answering emphatically to the Spanish sports daily AS.

Alonso was asked if he finds offensive the suggestions his Ferrari career has been a failure so far.

"I don't care about that," said the former back-to-back Renault World Champion, "but I think it's strange to be asked about it because, without a doubt, 2010 and especially 2011 have been the best.

"It has been something difficult to repeat; finishing most of the races, doing incredible lap times, fantastic starts, great pit stops, successful strategies, podiums, a Grand Prix win.

What has he been sniffing. I just hope that his this season isn't going to be even better - if he counts success like that. Alonso is surely one of the best drivers in the grid, so Ferrari can't blame him for car being poor. They just have lost the touch to build the car. Copying other teams is not the solution - at least in a normal season when tyre lottery doesn't mess up expectations.
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 Post subject: Re: The future of Ferrari's #2?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 18:42  
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reppo wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
Why did kimi win? Mclaren imploded. Lets not beat around the bush. Mclaren lost it through their own stupidity. But your right, it does say something in Ferrari paying $60 million to get alonso onboard and then after his first year giving him a further 5 year contract to sign even though he didn't fluke a world championship in his first year like Kimi. But then again, After a year, Alonso didnt give up and get beaten by a second rate driver!

Whatever makes you kimi fans sleep at night :n :hug:

And what makes Ferrari fans sleep at night. At 2007 and even 2008 Ferrari won CWC with clear marginal. 2009 they were P4, one point behind McLaren, even they practically had only one driver half a season in a car which was no longer developed. 2008 car was a s*** car to Kimi. Luca Baldisserri said it in summer 2008 that with understeering one of our driver can handle it and the other is dead. The dead one wasn't Massa. Now Ferrari has been two years in a row in P3 and currently P4. 2010 Alonso lost WDC by 4 points and last year he was P4, 13 points away from even P2. Yet he goes saying stupid things like in 2010 that it was his best year, or last year:
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-2011-season-best-in-my-life-fernando-alonso/
Quote:
F1: 2011 Season ‘Best In My Life’ - Alonso

At the scene of his 2010 championship failure, Fernando Alonso has refused to acknowledge in Abu Dhabi that this season has also been a bad one.

"This season is the best I've ever done in my life," he is quoted as answering emphatically to the Spanish sports daily AS.

Alonso was asked if he finds offensive the suggestions his Ferrari career has been a failure so far.

"I don't care about that," said the former back-to-back Renault World Champion, "but I think it's strange to be asked about it because, without a doubt, 2010 and especially 2011 have been the best.

"It has been something difficult to repeat; finishing most of the races, doing incredible lap times, fantastic starts, great pit stops, successful strategies, podiums, a Grand Prix win.

What has he been sniffing. I just hope that his this season isn't going to be even better - if he counts success like that. Alonso is surely one of the best drivers in the grid, so Ferrari can't blame him for car being poor. They just have lost the touch to build the car. Copying other teams is not the solution - at least in a normal season when tyre lottery doesn't mess up expectations.


I hate ferrari. I dont support a team Since Renau pulled out in 2009. Otherwise Alonso was brill in 2010. It was one of his best seasons in pure driving. He screwed up in Monaco and Silverstone was harsh.

Obviously being faster than over half the grid without a clutch in a Malaysia was stunning. He was pitch perfect in every other race. Singapore and Monza were flawless. He scored more wins than mclaren combined right? 2010 was an awsome season. 4 other on the pace competitors combined with a twatty egotistic Alonso and a rookie imploding, even though Alonso didnt win the championship it was more entertaining than Kimis first year cept Alonso has moved forward, kimi went backwards and was beaten by a second driver.

But it dont matter, Kimi wont win another championship, Alonso will. Kimi doesnt have the team building or commitment. Ferrari would take a championless Alonso over 1 wdc kimi. But still, Alonso has 2 wdc and kimi will always have just 1. Alonso has always been a better driver and always will be. Thats what upsets kimi fans. still sore about it. Me personally, i hate ferrari, alonso was a t*** in 2007 and deservedly lost. he shouldve been stripped of his singapore win. he shouldnt have been cocky in monaco, thats why he aint a 4xwdc. but thats it. get on with 2012. But some fans of various drivers and not kust here go for a stats war and its daft
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 Post subject: Re: The future of Ferrari's #2?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 18:54  
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mikhailv, is there anything you don't hate in F1 :lol: If Ferrari keeps performing as they have done past years, Alonso won't win. Ferrari hiring Alonso even him not being two times WDC - you must be a mind reader and a fortuneteller to know what Ferrari would have done in such case. Or you are just trolling :p
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 Post subject: Re: The future of Ferrari's #2?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 19:14  
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reppo wrote:
mikhailv, is there anything you don't hate in F1 :lol: If Ferrari keeps performing as they have done past years, Alonso won't win. Ferrari hiring Alonso even him not being two times WDC - you must be a mind reader and a fortuneteller to know what Ferrari would have done in such case. Or you are just trolling :p



Troll/faith. prefer faith XD

Plenty i like but come on, most ferrari fans are glory hunters, most haters are Mclaren fans. I like neither team. I loved renault/benetton :(

But a true Alonso fan always has faith. Id cheer him on if he was fighting for 1st place or 23rd place. Doesnt matter about anything else, I share the joy of a victory the satisfaction of a podium, the disapointment of a retirement and the sorrow of a loss. Its what makes the sport for me, supporting a driver. So boring being a casual, no nerves at the start hoping to get through T1 cleanly or in the lead. The cthrill of the chase or defence. Alonso brings that for me.
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 Post subject: Re: The future of Ferrari's #2?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 19:27  
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Fair enough mikhailv :thumbsup:
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 Post subject: Re: The future of Ferrari's #2?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 20:42  
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Pretty honest interview from Felipe here. A couple of quotes stood out for me.

Quote:
I think we must also take into account that, at the moment, Fernando’s driving is amazing: he is on super form, maybe even perfect.


Quote:
It’s a difficult question, but equally, it’s one that, one way or another, needs to be asked. Has there ever been the doubt in your mind that you are no longer as quick since the accident in Budapest?
“I have asked myself that forty five thousand times and don’t think I haven’t and why wouldn’t I: having won so much over three years, eleven races, the question is obvious. And it’s not as though I only stuck to asking myself: I went looking for the answer, asking a whole host of questions and undergoing as many medical examinations.


http://www.ferrari.com/English/Formula1 ... by-me.aspx

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Ferrari's #2?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 21:36  
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I already made a comment about that interview and I don´t see where he is honest there. Let´s see so, he starts the interview already making excuses for another bad perfomance (talking about the drive-through). He´s barely beating the Caterham´s and struggling to keep the pace of the Toro Rosso´s but it´s never his fault, never. The thing is that Alonso keep winning races and getting podiums and still talks about improvement and wants to do better, and Massa the first thing he does is complaining and making excuses. And apparently he is happy with his pace ("on Sunday my pace was not that far off"), when he finished the last race LAPPED (and in Malaysia almost as well) by his teammate and other 2 drivers. This guy has a lot of ambition!

And take a look at this: "However, Felipe is not the sort to hide from the truth and provides honest answers to our questions."
And so, being a honest person, he says: "“I think that this year, the only race where there really was a big difference between me and Fernando..." well I think this is enough to show how "honest" he was. It´s a shame honestly.
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