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Is it time HRT and Marussia were dropped?
Yes 24%  24%  [ 6 ]
No 76%  76%  [ 19 ]
Total votes : 25
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 Post subject: Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 15:00  
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So, what do we think? HRT is still struggling, but Marussia is showing signs of moving forwards. Plus, they have a gem of a rookie in Charles Pic. That said, HRT opened a proper new base yesterday. 2014 is still the target for both teams I think!

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 Post subject: Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 15:31  
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HRT, Marussia AND Caterham need to be dropped. in 3 years, they havn't gained anything to the midfield.

Lets look at it this way; In monaco 2002, Arrows was 2 laps off the leader. HRT was 4 laps with karth, 3 laps with liuzzi and Ambrosia. They are slower than Arrows were, and Im sure they are slower than Minardi in a quite a few races too.

Fact is these teams were brought on under the £40million failed proposition by Max Mosely. And no, the proposition didn't include Nazi dress and prostitutes. The teams dont have a budget thats even comparable.

HRT had €34million budget last year, Virgin had €45million and Caterham between €40-€60million. Sauber only had €48million, Force India had €60-85million, Mercedes had €72million, Renau €86million and the top 3 had in excess of €200million (http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... =1&t=10259)

Now, GP2 only have a 2million Euro budget. 01:30.655 was GP2 pole time, 1:27.555 was PDR's time, and 1:31.122 was Karthikeyans time. Admitted, Petrov was a 1:25.2, but Senna crashed out. So massa, who was in the garage with 3 minuets to go, isn't a comparible account, but he was 1.8 seconds ahead of Petrov. Hamiltons pole time was 10 seconds ahead of Karthikeyan.

10 SECONDS a lap. So for caterham, say 7.5 seconds a lap slower than Pole. its ridiculous, its a joke. They need to go. If Sauber and Force India can do what they do with a budget like that, then the others should be Ashamed and she be forced out of F1. We need quality over quantity, and the back end teams are there to make numbers up.
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 Post subject: Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 15:38  
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Karthikeyan had massive problems in Q1 so that time is pointless.

The problem is getting the foundations in. I'd give them time. If they can't compete by 2014 then I'm going to be really disappointed. The thing people forget is that in the manufacturer era, everyone was close. Minardi was about the pace of Marussia for many years.

People also forget that in the history of F1 there have been some apocalyptically atrocious F1 teams. Remember Life? Doing laps that took minutes more than the opposition :lol: I think we all want them closer to the front. The thing with these teams is they allow good drivers to stay or break into the sport. Like Charles Pic; he's a very good driver and he's getting an F1 chance. If anything, I'd like a couple more teams so that we can have pre-qualifying.

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 Post subject: Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 15:45  
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phil1993 wrote:
Karthikeyan had massive problems in Q1 so that time is pointless.

The problem is getting the foundations in. I'd give them time. If they can't compete by 2014 then I'm going to be really disappointed. The thing people forget is that in the manufacturer era, everyone was close. Minardi was about the pace of Marussia for many years.

People also forget that in the history of F1 there have been some apocalyptically atrocious F1 teams. Remember Life? Doing laps that took minutes more than the opposition :lol: I think we all want them closer to the front. The thing with these teams is they allow good drivers to stay or break into the sport. Like Charles Pic; he's a very good driver and he's getting an F1 chance. If anything, I'd like a couple more teams so that we can have pre-qualifying.


LOL! yeah! I think the problem is, now days it is so money and aerodynamically driven, than in the old days, you could take a punt with your car and enter it. Sure you had the usual suspects at the front, but I think the difference is reliability. I'll never forget Alonso in the Minardi at Suzuka, out pacing BAR and Benetton, a semi-giant killer moment. But there was attritian rate before 2004. Cars are so bullet proof, accidents are so few and far between, you've not got Ide anymore, no Yamamoto, Sato, De ceserais or any over eager mid pack drivers, theyre all much more sensible now, so cars dont get taken out, safety cars dont happen often.

The teams are in their 3rd year now. Caterham have a decent foundation but havn't jumped forward as predicted. Virgin Marussia whatever havn't, HRT have been a sham since theyve started and changed hands thrice now isn't it? 2014 may be a turning point with new rules and regs, but none of them teams have the brain power to do anything about it.
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 Post subject: Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 15:46  
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phil1993 wrote:
The problem is getting the foundations in. I'd give them time. If they can't compete by 2014 then I'm going to be really disappointed. The thing people forget is that in the manufacturer era, everyone was close. Minardi was about the pace of Marussia for many years.


From this point of view, given the consistency in ownership / personnel plus their Renault engines and parts from Red Bull Caterham have been the most disappointing. They've not really joined the mid-field battle yet. HRT / Marussia have been worse, but no one has had any reason to expect more from them yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 15:50  
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Caterham have been underwhelming, doubly so considering they have two good drivers in the car. At least Marussia has the excuse of a rookie.

Marussia really cocked up with trusting Wirth's CFD too much. It failed miserably and therefore I see this as Year One for Marussia; they have a new base, new method of designing the car and they have some good foundations now. I'm confident for them. Ditto HRT. They stumbled through their first two years as Kolles literally saved them several times. I'm expecting them to improve in 2013 and then move closer in 2014.

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 Post subject: Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 15:52  
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phil1993 wrote:
Caterham have been underwhelming, doubly so considering they have two good drivers in the car. At least Marussia has the excuse of a rookie.

Marussia really cocked up with trusting Wirth's CFD too much. It failed miserably and therefore I see this as Year One for Marussia; they have a new base, new method of designing the car and they have some good foundations now. I'm confident for them. Ditto HRT. They stumbled through their first two years as Kolles literally saved them several times. I'm expecting them to improve in 2013 and then move closer in 2014.


Theyve got alot to do in two years, which is why I can see them getting drastically worse next year and banking on 2014's rules and regs, which just means they arent getting anywhere.
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 Post subject: Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 16:00  
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I'm confident for Marussia as well. Pat Symonds seems really good for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?
PostPosted: 19 May 2012, 16:10  
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donald29 wrote:
I'm confident for Marussia as well. Pat Symonds seems really good for them.


Pat Symonds is awsome, but i've got a feeling he will be leaving Marussia soon. I know there was quite a few rumours of him becoming advisory with Williams also.

But, I can dream about Flavio and Pat joining Ferrari ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?
PostPosted: 23 May 2012, 15:07  
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http://www.f1zone.net/news/marussia-thinking-seriously-about-kers/14082/
And I am seriously thinking about flying to moon. So far looks like the most significant achievement of Marussia, Caterham and HRT in F1 is moving to new headquarters. It is about time for them to start achieving something else too.
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