Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

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Is it time HRT and Marussia were dropped?

Yes
6
24%
No
19
76%
 
Total votes: 25

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phil1993
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Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

Post by phil1993 » 28 Feb 2012, 15:43

Wow reppo, surprised you found that old feature!

Marussia failing their crash test is pretty disastrous. Even HRT has done that.

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Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

Post by KevC » 28 Feb 2012, 16:33

Didn't one of the big teams fail one of their crash tests last year (or the year before)?

I guess the difference is though that they do all of that stuff many weeks earlier and have loads of time to fix it before testing gets under way. To arrange the crash tests only a few days before the final track test and hope it passes first time is bad planning really. As I've said before, they've barely updated the car all season so they've had loads of time to get the new one ready. Why is it only 3 weeks before the season that they have it complete enough to do a crash test? What have they been up to for the rest of the year?

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Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

Post by phil1993 » 28 Feb 2012, 16:36

Marussia has undergone a massive technical restructuring. They dispensed of Wirth's services in July last year and sorted out the deal with McLaren around that time as well. Hired Symonds too. Another problem is they still work on a very low budget, despite a decent number of sponsors. They're eyeing 2014 as the year to get competitive. For them and HRT, 2012 is a case of one step backwards to go two forwards.

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Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

Post by reppo » 28 Feb 2012, 16:54

phil1993 wrote:Wow reppo, surprised you found that old feature!

But of course I did Image Well... in fact it was google :O

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Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

Post by reppo » 28 Feb 2012, 17:11

Kevin Clark wrote:I seem to remember one issue with that was safety and liability. If, heaven forbid, someone died in a crash using a major component like a chassis or survival cell that had been bought from another team, there could be some complex legal issues over who is at fault, if any component failure happened.

Yes, I see your point. But wasn't the trial because of Senna's accident complex too. It took 600 pages of technical report and 13 years before the final verdict was pronounced. Since then safety regulations have improved greatly and no drivers have died after him. No-one has died in F1 for 10 years when a race marshal died in Australian GP in 2001.

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Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

Post by reppo » 28 Feb 2012, 18:43

frubbs wrote:i dont agree that F1 have to limit itself for green purposes while all factories in china or US keep f**k**g with the planet and laughing at Kyoto´s face.

Word is not saved by F1 "green" V6 engine. It is just a face lift to promote F1's "green" values what so ever. If they want to be green why don't they change to methanol or ethanol. It would be more "green" than reducing cylinders. Doesn't IRL cars run on ethanol. ''hmm'' Vodka ''hmm'' What an opportunity for sponsors like Stolichnaya or Smirnoff :lol: Anyway ethanol comes from fully renewable sources. Reducing cylinder count is stupid.

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Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

Post by tderias » 28 Feb 2012, 19:55

reppo wrote:
frubbs wrote:i dont agree that F1 have to limit itself for green purposes while all factories in china or US keep f**k**g with the planet and laughing at Kyoto´s face.

Word is not saved by F1 "green" V6 engine. It is just a face lift to promote F1's "green" values what so ever. If they want to be green why don't they change to methanol or ethanol. It would be more "green" than reducing cylinders. Doesn't IRL cars run on ethanol. ''hmm'' Vodka ''hmm'' What an opportunity for sponsors like Stolichnaya or Smirnoff :lol: Anyway ethanol comes from fully renewable sources. Reducing cylinder count is stupid.


Well that makes it even worse doesn't it? So they put on a 'green' face, but without the real intention of being environmental, therefore failing to achieve a clear image for the sport. Its a called a positioning problem in the degree I'm studying. You either go green or not. There's no point in doing half a job, because you'll always be open to questions like "then why haven't you done this?", and "why haven't you done that?".

It'll be a good day for the sport when Bernie and his clown crew are thrown off the boat...

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Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

Post by reppo » 28 Feb 2012, 20:30

tderias wrote:Well that makes it even worse doesn't it? So they put on a 'green' face, but without the real intention of being environmental, therefore failing to achieve a clear image for the sport. Its a called a positioning problem in the degree I'm studying. You either go green or not. There's no point in doing half a job, because you'll always be open to questions like "then why haven't you done this?", and "why haven't you done that?".

Well yes. Indy cars and CART went to methanol and it wasn't for environmental reason. IRL was using methanol before they switched to pure ethanol, and I think it was because of the sponsorship of EPIC - not so much for environmental reasons. V6 engines are stupid in F1. Why don't they spoil everything altogether and go to V2. They could borrow engines from MotoGP. Pleading to environmental reasons is so lame. Wonder what kind of committee is behind that desision.

tderias wrote:It'll be a good day for the sport when Bernie and his clown crew are thrown off the boat...

Bernie leaving F1? He'll never leave and he'll never even die. If he would he would probably do it for tax reasons like Hotblack Desiato did, when Arthur Dent met him at the restaurant at end of the universe.

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Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

Post by phil1993 » 28 Feb 2012, 20:35

We may all criticise Bernie, but he's done a damn good job for F1. He has the racing in his heart, no doubt - he's been kind to Silverstone and Spa is still hanging on. He knows the importance of classic tracks. Once he goes, I fear that a big company will just take F1 to 20 Abu Dhabi style circuits, ie - devoid of entertainment or soul.

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Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

Post by reppo » 28 Feb 2012, 20:59

Well, Bernie was owner of Brabham once and he has insight of racing. Good for him to keep Silverstone and Spa in the calendar, but he has also been one of those who has taken F1 to boring Tilke tracks like Abu Dhabi. I agree with Jackie Stewart that the track should penalize driver for errors and reward for talent.

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Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

Post by tderias » 28 Feb 2012, 22:53

phil1993 wrote:We may all criticise Bernie, but he's done a damn good job for F1. He has the racing in his heart, no doubt - he's been kind to Silverstone and Spa is still hanging on. He knows the importance of classic tracks. Once he goes, I fear that a big company will just take F1 to 20 Abu Dhabi style circuits, ie - devoid of entertainment or soul.


Ok I'm sorry but I'm going to have to strongly disagree here. If there's one thing Bernie hasn't been kind to, its soul of the F1 Calendar. We've already lost Imola, Magny Cours, A1 Ring, and the recent Istanbul Park, all of which are highly regarded by the fans. Tracks like Silverstone, Monza, Spa and Nurburgring/Hockenhiem are only hanging on because Bernie knows that if he dares to even think about replacing them, he'll be given the boot and the media will despise him. Yet we recently hear the rumors of his plans to have Spa an alternating grand prix...

'I fear that a big company will just take F1 to 20 Abu Dhabi style circuits'. Well wasn't it Bernie that opened the F1 door to these tracks in the first place? How long have fans complained about the boring Tilke-dromes, yet we are on the verge of racing in another of this breed in Austin, Texas - because Bernie can't give a rat's ass to what we think, just as long as he's cashing in. And as if that's not enough, we hear of his plans of going to Russia and South Africa... which will soon probably replace the 'less profitable' European grand prix...

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Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

Post by Adam » 29 Feb 2012, 11:16

They are not wasting mine for sure. Nor Ferrari or RBR's one. Nor Obama's one. Kim Jong-il doesn't seem to be getting his time wasted either.

So No.

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Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

Post by reppo » 29 Feb 2012, 11:32

tderias wrote:Well wasn't it Bernie that opened the F1 door to these tracks in the first place? How long have fans complained about the boring Tilke-dromes, yet we are on the verge of racing in another of this breed in Austin, Texas - because Bernie can't give a rat's ass to what we think, just as long as he's cashing in. And as if that's not enough, we hear of his plans of going to Russia and South Africa... which will soon probably replace the 'less profitable' European grand prix...

I can't disagree with that but what Bernie did to F1 at the beginning was, he managed build F1 to a great motorsport with huge popularity and visibility. Later it looks so that he started thinking F1 as pure business and how to get the last cent out of it. And Tilke should be banned from F1 completely. I can't blame Bernie for Tilke designing poor tracks.

And the nominees for bringing off track racing into on track racing are....

Hermann Tilke.... Hermann Tilke.... and... would you believe it... HERMANN TILKE :C:

And the first price goes tooo... HERMANN TILKE :1st:
Image

- So Hermann, how do you feel now?
- :rule#

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Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

Post by phil1993 » 29 Feb 2012, 11:51

Yet again people blame Tilke. It isn't his fault some of the tracks are bad - there are so many rules & regulations stipulating the construction of a new circuit. He has to do what is best, and in many cases he succeeds.

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Re: Are HRT and Marussia wasting everyone's time?

Post by reppo » 29 Feb 2012, 13:34

phil1993 wrote:Yet again people blame Tilke. It isn't his fault some of the tracks are bad - there are so many rules & regulations stipulating the construction of a new circuit. He has to do what is best, and in many cases he succeeds.

This is getting off topic. There ought to be a thread for discussing more deeply about track designs and regulations and Bernie, where these posts could be moved.

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