2012 Formula One Discussion

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reppo
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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by reppo » 08 Jun 2012, 20:43

mikhailv wrote:
reppo wrote:Does it really matter now if euro was a bad or good move. Regardless of what ever, current crisis means less money for everything in whole western Europe and it is not good news for F1. Could happen that more races goes to where money goes - to Asia, America and where else? Bernie takes F1 to anywhere he gets the best pay.



Its called a discussion lol. If we had individual currencies would we see more sponsorship and no crisis?

It is called off-topic

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by MavF1 » 08 Jun 2012, 20:49

reppo wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
reppo wrote:Does it really matter now if euro was a bad or good move. Regardless of what ever, current crisis means less money for everything in whole western Europe and it is not good news for F1. Could happen that more races goes to where money goes - to Asia, America and where else? Bernie takes F1 to anywhere he gets the best pay.



Its called a discussion lol. If we had individual currencies would we see more sponsorship and no crisis?

It is called off-topic


But it's an important "off-topic", so don't be too nit-picky about it. :O

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by Mar » 08 Jun 2012, 21:04

Off-Topic: show
MavF1 wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
MavF1 wrote:The Euro isn't a joke and I think it's important that we keep it. I know the British have their issues with the EU, I personally find the UK government's categorical "No" to a financial transaction tax rather annoying. Understandable, since London is one of the biggest global financial centers, but not reasonable.
I agree with you though that any of the aforementioned countries folding from the Euro would create chaos and not only in Europe I assume. It's been four years now since the crisis in the US came to light and it started a chain of events that just triggers one crisis after another, it seems to be a never ending story.
Anyway, this is getting offtopic.


The euro is a failure because not every country is equal.

How can Greece have the same value of currency as that of germany for example? Exchange rates for different countries was there for a reason'; a reflection of each countries economy; how much one currency is worth to another based on its own performance. Thats why we always had £1 was nearly $2 for example, before the crisis.

One currency is a great idea on paper, but the fact is germany has a big industry, Greece doesnt for example. How can the two be considered equal when they are anything but? Fiscal equality and parity would be needed, meaning each country must be the same as the other for it to work. But it doesnt work because there is zero equality within the EU currency. It was a huge mistake having one currency because it has one value for all countries.

Off-Topic: show
And you think the creators of the Euro didn't know this?
The Euro was never about equality of economies within Europe, that wouldn't be possible anyway. Everyone knows that it isn't a project without flaws, politicians and economist have made mistakes during it's creation, surely.

However, let's not forget that the Euro is as much a political project as it is an economic one. And if you look at some of the most important political decisions regarding Europe (and Germany in particular) in the second half of the 20th century, they all had their flaws. Be it the Denazification of Germany after WWII, the execution of German reunification under chancellor Kohl or the creation of the Euro. Unfortunately neither of those political processes were flawless. But that doesn't mean that they weren't important.
The Euro was meant to simplify trade amongst European states, but it was also meant to be another step of Europe growing together, getting closer. The Brits always were sceptical of that and I'm not criticizing them for that in general, it's just how they are. This Euroscepticism is mainly caused by the economic-ideologial rift between the UK and Continental Europe, basically it's Anglo-Saxon economy vs. Social market economy.

Anyway, I'm far from an expert on that matter and it has been controversially discussed in Germany over the last two years if a return to the D-Mark was better for the country. I just think it wouldn't be, not for Germany and not for Europe. We're an export-driven economy, the currency appreciation would probably do great harm.
What is important is that the Euro isn't responsible for the crisis which we have now, but a combination of mismanagement of both the financial sector and the state in some countries. And people in Greece and Spain are already heavily suffering from the aftermath of their politicians' wrongdoings and the uncontrolled banking sector. It's a mess, but we have to get through that and keep the Euro imo.

Thanks for the links btw, I'll watch it, but I can already say that my stance on that won't change so quickly (as is yours probably), it's just that ideological gap I was referring to earlier. I just consider myself a pro-Europe, Social market economy type of guy. Cheers.


Off-Topic: show
Agree with you, Reppo! :hug:
I have an exam in Brussels on Monday, and EU History is one of the things I had to prepare myself in.
It helps understand much of what there is, how things work like they work, why what was created was necessary and why de Gaulle never wanted the Britons in the EEC, even if they are absolutely lovely people :p

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by MavF1 » 08 Jun 2012, 21:12

Off-Topic: show
Mar wrote:Agree with you, Reppo! :hug:
I have an exam in Brussels on Monday, and EU History is one of the things I had to prepare myself in.
It helps understand much of what there is, how things work like they work, why what was created was necessary and why de Gaulle never wanted the Britons in the EEC, even if they are absolutely lovely people :p


Are you referring to my little EU excursion, cause I'm not reppo :p (Or do I misunderstand sth. now)
Anyway, I wish you all the best for your exam in Brussels. And yeah, the history of the EU is as interesting as it is complicated. :)
Last edited by MavF1 on 08 Jun 2012, 21:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by Mar » 08 Jun 2012, 21:16

MavF1 wrote:
Off-Topic: show
Mar wrote:Agree with you, Reppo! :hug:
I have an exam in Brussels on Monday, and EU History is one of the things I had to prepare myself in.
It helps understand much of what there is, how things work like they work, why what was created was necessary and why de Gaulle never wanted the Britons in the EEC, even if they are absolutely lovely people :p


Off-Topic: show
But I'm not reppo, or do I misunderstand sth. now... :O

Anyway I wish you all the best for your exam in Brussels. And yeah, the history of the EU is as interesting as it is complicated. :)


I was initially answering Reppo, (and agreeing with you as a consequence) but I ended up messing up all the quotes and off topics tags. :lol:

Thanks a ton! :hug:

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by donald29 » 08 Jun 2012, 21:56

Interesting to see foreign perceptions of the UK.

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by reppo » 09 Jun 2012, 04:04

MavF1 wrote:
Off-Topic: show
reppo wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
reppo wrote:Does it really matter now if euro was a bad or good move. Regardless of what ever, current crisis means less money for everything in whole western Europe and it is not good news for F1. Could happen that more races goes to where money goes - to Asia, America and where else? Bernie takes F1 to anywhere he gets the best pay.



Its called a discussion lol. If we had individual currencies would we see more sponsorship and no crisis?

It is called off-topic


But it's an important "off-topic", so don't be too nit-picky about it. :O

Off-Topic: show
Oh, yes I'm since Community Chat is the place for what ever discussion. If everyone started feeding what ever topics in what ever thread the forum would become pain in the arse for those who are interested only in topic related discussions. And this doesn't mean that euro, history of EU monetary system, history of EU, Europe and economics are less imortant or less interesting topics. Just to save others nerves you know :O

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by reppo » 09 Jun 2012, 05:19

Mar wrote:
Off-Topic: show
Agree with you, Reppo! :hug:
I have an exam in Brussels on Monday, and EU History is one of the things I had to prepare myself in.
It helps understand much of what there is, how things work like they work, why what was created was necessary and why de Gaulle never wanted the Britons in the EEC, even if they are absolutely lovely people :p

Off-Topic: show
Good luck with your exams :thumbsup: And to be not completely off-topic I say, then you can go teach Lotus, money doesn't grow on trees and what is the difference between US and Zimbabwean dollar :lol:

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by mikhailv » 09 Jun 2012, 13:14

Dont care what anyone says, watching the Villeneuve piece from the f1 show on sky, I have asmuch respect for Jacques as i do Gilles; Maximum.

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by phil1993 » 09 Jun 2012, 13:15

I've got a lot of respect for JV. I think he was better than many remember for; his form only really dipped after 2002. Between 1996 and 2001 he was a very good racing driver.

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by mikhailv » 09 Jun 2012, 13:53

phil1993 wrote:I've got a lot of respect for JV. I think he was better than many remember for; his form only really dipped after 2002. Between 1996 and 2001 he was a very good racing driver.


I think he was one of those drivers who just couldnt drive very well with Electronics. Like Senna, he wasn't liking them at all.

I also think he got a bit disillusioned with the sport.

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by donald29 » 09 Jun 2012, 14:08

Image

Nice pic when you think back to the Villeneuve and Clear versus Schumacher battle in 97. Clear seems to get on really well with Schumacher now, seems to really enjoy working with him.

Funny to think Villeneuve is younger than Schumi.

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by MavF1 » 09 Jun 2012, 14:40

What exactly is Clear's role at Mercedes atm?

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by reppo » 10 Jun 2012, 04:54

http://www.ts.fi/moottoriurheilu/f1/356226/Viidella+kaikki+kisakierrokset (Heikki Kulta)
Five drivers have all race laps
F1 | Turun Sanomat 1:04

Five drivers have driven all laps and kilometers of the season in six Grand Prix races. In races 371 laps or 1799.5 kilometers have been run.

All laps have driven Fernando Alonso, Sebastian Vettel, Lewis Hamilton, Nico Rosberg and Kimi Raikkonen. The sixth on this list is Mark Webber, who in Spain lost a lap to the top.

The least laps has driven Räikkönen's team mate Romain Grosjean, who has 183 laps or 942.9 kilometers.

In the race lead have been 12 drivers. Most is flown by Vettel, who has led a total of 71 laps or 353.1 kilometers. Alonso has led 67 laps or 345.2 km. Both of Lotus drivers have also been in the lead. Grosjean led a lap in Bahrain and Raikkonen two laps in Spain.

Turun sanomat, Montreal

HEIKKI KULTA
Statistics
Race kilometers (max. 1799.5 km)

1. Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton, Rosberg, Raikkonen 1799.5
6. Webber and di Resta 1794.8
8. Vergne 1791.5
9. Button 1761.9
10. Glock 1759.7
11. Ricciardo 1746.0
12. Massa 1731.2
13. Perez 1661.1
14. Kovalainen 1658.1
15. Senna 1500.0
16. Hülkenberg 1487.2
17. Kobayashi 1483.5
18. Petrov 1440.7
19. pic 1396.8
20. Maldonado 1349.4
21. Karthikeyan 1247.6
22. De la Rosa 1190.1
23. Schumacher 1003.6
24. Grosjean 942.9

Lead spot:

1. Vettel 353.1 km (71 laps)
2. Alonso, 345.2 (67)
3. Button 324.2 (61)
4. Rosberg, 261.6 (48)
5. Webber 203.7 (61)
6. Maldonado 172.2 (37)
7. Hamilton 77.4 (14)
8. Perez, 38.5 (7)
9. Raikkonen 9.3 (2)
10. Grosjean 5.4 (1)
11. Di Resta 5.4 (1)
12. Massa 3.3 (1)


Don't ask me where places 2-5 went in the first stat - maybe Heikki was tired ''hmm''

Edit: typo fixed
Edit2: fixed typo of the text edited because of a typo
Edit3: forgot to fix the fixed typo of the text edited because of a typo. Now it should be right :zz:

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by KevC » 10 Jun 2012, 10:49

reppo wrote:Don't ask me where places 2-5 went in the first stat - maybe Heikki was tired ''hmm''

The numbers are correct.

If you have more than one person in an equal position, the next place is that number of people further down. That's why there is no one in 7th.

eg if you have two people in equal first, the next placed person is listed as third.

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