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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 07 May 2012, 11:48  
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phil1993 wrote:
I'd refute Red Bull. They're double world champions and have attracted a lot of new fans to the sport. They may still be a drinks brand, but they're Stewart/JagRac and they're one of the most successful teams now. 30 wins I think, or something around that figure.

But for me, it'd be Ferrari, McLaren and Williams if we talk about history. Even so, Mercedes may be fairly new, but they're the same 'team' as Tyrrell.


I still dont think Redbull deserve anything, if they are included as they are I can see why Mercedes is upset; After all, mercedes has done 10 times more than Redbull. And I dont think Redbull have brought any new fans, Vettel as a German has, not Redbull though. Theyve only had 2 years as the top as 2009 was all about Brawn. 'Baby schumi' moniker helped.

I mean, Redbull used to be Jaguar right? If we go on that, Force India should get more for being Spyker/Midland/Jordan.

Put it this way, Nobody would miss redbull. Nobody would miss Lotus/proton/lada/tata/renault/Genii/no longer sponsored by lotus but still called lotus for money F1.

I do agree Williams should get something, But to be honest id put Mclaren/Renault equal, maybe a slight percentage to Mclaren really. I just dont see what Redbull or Mercedes have done for F1. Redbulls had 2 years. Aside from two cool Superman and Star Wars liveries, they did nothing until 2010.

The only teams F1 would miss, are The reds and the Chromes. They are the face of F1 to me, Williams has gone down the pan since 2004, infact 2000's. Renault are no longer a manufacturer, but a solid engine supplier and deserve rewards for what they have done.

Maybe Newey should get a percentage ;)
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 07 May 2012, 12:34  
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Sky is also reporting this...
http://www.f1zone.net/news/mercedes-con ... udy/13812/

So, who wants to buy a race winning team?

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 07 May 2012, 13:40  
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Its about time Porsche made the move... I swear I've heard rumors about them entering F1...

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 07 May 2012, 13:50  
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here's something intresting: Ferrari has won just 8 races of the past 59 races, a number that matches Brawn's wins in 2009...Boy, that's terrible

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 07 May 2012, 14:04  
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Bernie is asking wrong questions: "What have they done in Formula One?", when he should be asking: "What can they do for Formula One?".

I have said it before and I say it now, sharing money because of some historical reasons is BS. It is like giving some kind of life time award to a team. Team Lotus (R.I.P.) deserves such as well as Ferrari, but Ferrari is not yet dead (thank for that). But it is rubbish to give money because a team is legendary (for heavens sake I'm a Ferrari fan). Only fair way to reward teams is results. You are as good as you last result. Current system is as archaic as 13" rims, which also should be dumped.

In Indycar they have TEAM (Team Enhancement and Allocation Matrix) money, plus prize money for results in races. It used to be earlier so that according last years results 24 top teams got a monthly payment, but that was too easy and in Leader Circle contracts teams have to show what they'll do to support Indycar racing:

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-series-tightening-team-payout-criteria/
Quote:
“For this year, to start, every one of the [20] cars needs to make a presentation to IndyCar,” he explained. “We want to learn about their plans, their drivers, their sponsors, how they plan to activate those sponsors, what kind of media and promotions the teams are working on and how they are basically going to interact with the series and our fans. Then, we can sit down and discuss how we can help, how we can cross-promote, activate, how we can work closer with each team to make both sides stronger.”

Quote:
“If you don’t have a Leader Circle contract and you want one, we’re going to give them to the people who are going to do the most for our sport,” said Bernard. “Whoever’s going to give back the most to the sport. The ones who can show us that you are going to make a difference to our sport are the ones who will win the contracts.”

Quote:
“If a team comes in with a sponsor and shows us they can create 25 million impressions for the brand of IndyCar, or aggressively promote our sport through their driver or [marketing] campaigns or B2B relationships, we are going to award those additional spots by who makes the strongest presentation and has the most sound plan,” he said.

Quote:
“More than anything, we can’t put personalities, or who it is that’s sitting in front of us--whether it’s an old team or a new team or whatever else--as a priority,” said Bernard. “It’s going to be an objective process. Will the established teams that have bigger plans have an advantage? It’ll be easier for them, I’d imagine. But that’s not to say a small team or a new team that comes in with a sponsor who wants to do big things won’t get a contract. It isn’t all about money or how big the sponsor is.


Teams should be payed according their result including midfield teams and not just the top. If there were prize money system, then smaller teams could offer talented young drivers without big sponsor money bag a chance to show their worth. Any team who can contribute to F1, should get support from the series too.

One can ask what F1 is worth to Mercedes. They have survived without it before and surely they can live without it. Toyota left, Honda left, Renault left. What is left if there is only Ferrari and couple of engine suppliers. I'll say F1 is shrinking and may some day be replaced with something else :(
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 07 May 2012, 14:06  
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"Mercedes can do more damage to F1 than F1 can do to them."
Spoiler:
“Did you have a nice school holiday?” said Penelope (Roedean), with just the right hint of irony, as The Mole strode into the office on Monday morning. He looked tanned. He had been down on the Cote d’Azur for a fortnight with his ghastly grandchildren, who had thus far completely failed to develop into young gentlemen, despite very large sums of money being spent on their education.

“Not really,” he said. “Mrs Mole was so worn out that she has gone off to see her sister for a holiday to get over the holiday.”

Mrs Mole’s sister had married a Scotsman and had banished herself to Mallaig, a small fishing town where her husband Duncan does “something with kippers”.

“I guess it was rather better than going to the Bahrain Grand Prix,” he added.

“Given a choice between Bahrain and the Cote d’Azur,” said Penelope (Cheltenham Ladies College), “I think I would probably go for the latter. You meet fewer Hezbollah in the bars on the Cote d’Azur.”

Her grey eyes sparkled with laughter and for a moment the icy Athena seemed about to melt.

“True,” said The Mole. “These fellows do not seem much given to bougainvillea-scented terraces and gentle cocktail parties.”

“Hmmm,” said Penelope (Roedean), with a look that suggested butter WOULD melt in her mouth. “I am not so sure. They are definitely into Fuzzy Navels. Old Fashioneds, occasional Kamikazes and lots of Molotovs.”

“And no Americanos,” she added, with the kind of chuckle that causes cavalrymen to fall off their horses.

“There was nothing much we could do about Bahrain,” Penelope (Wycombe Abbey) said, changing the subject. The Mole turned to her, smiled and, for a brief second, thought with sadness of the inevitable day when she would find a man who was not frightened by her and would be whisked off to a church and, rapidly thereafter, a maternity ward.

“We did consider trying to get the all the F1 freight Jumbos from China to Bahrain to ‘go technical’ in Shanghai…” she added, “but you know it is not easy being MI6 and operating in China these days.”

“Never has been,” said The Mole. “But good thinking. Calling off the Grand Prix because the freight failed to arrive. Force majeure. A good excuse. Still, one got the impression that Bernie Ecclestone and Jean Todt were really rather keen for the race to go ahead. I have no idea why. Formula 1 got a hammering in the newspapers. Even the French ones. It was not hard to predict.”

“Perhaps they are trying to bring down the value of F1?” said Penelope (Benenden), peering across her desk through her glasses. “Perhaps they don’t want this wildly optimistic flotation that is being planned by the CVC suits. They seem awfully gung-ho. They are aiming for July.”

“I cannot imagine that it will happen,” said The Mole. “It is by no means certain that they will find the investors they need. I guess that is why they have a real bus-load of book runners.”

“If you hire enough people to look for the big gamblers then I suppose you might find enough of them,” said Penelope (Wycombe Abbey), “but I cannot see anyone buying into the idea if there is no Concorde Agreement in place. They are trying to give the impression that they are addressing the succession issue with these leaks about the Nestlé fellow, but the fact remains that it would still be Bernie Ecclestone in charge, wouldn’t it?”

“And you know how long negotiations for the Concorde Agreement take,” said Penelope (Benenden). “All these teams have lawyers and they all raise questions. It will take months and months, and that is if there are no disputes. I cannot see the whole thing being done by July. I don’t see Mercedes-Benz being in any hurry to help CVC out.”

“There is also the FIA,” said The Mole. “They have to sign the Concorde Agreement as well, and nothing moves very quickly in the Place de la Concorde. The FIA also has a right to veto any change of ownership in the Formula One group and that could hold things up, if someone wanted it to. I don’t suppose that the flotation would change the ownership, but the FIA might not wish to make any rapid decisions on that question. The federation does not get much from the Concorde Agreement these days. Perhaps that might be an opportunity to squeeze a few more pennies from the financiers. If they are in such a hurry maybe they would pay up.”

“But why are they in such a hurry?” said Penelope (Roedean). “Do they need the cash? Are they worried that the value will go down? I don’t get it.”

“Maybe they think if they make the flotation fast and exciting people will be drawn into it and invest with less caution,” said The Mole.

They paused for a moment.

“Let’s have a sit down and think this one through,” said The Mole. “Over some coffee and biscuits. Chocolate biscuits.”

Miss Pringle-Featherby (of the Berkshire Pringle-Featherbys) reached down to the bottom drawer of her desk and pulled out a packet of McVitie’s Chocolate Digestives.

“Remind me to recommend her for an MBE,” said The Mole. “For services to the intelligence community.”

A few minutes later they were gathered in The Mole’s office, with mugs of steaming Nescafe and lots of biscuit crumbs.

“Right,” he said. “Let’s go through this.”

Penelope (Benenden) drew a strand of dark hair away from her glasses and began talking. She was the one who knew all the answers when it came to background.

“The different funds of CVC Capital Partners own 63.3 percent of the shares,” she said, with a flash of her dark eyes. “There is some speculation that they will use the loan being raised at the moment to buy the 15.3 percent of the company that is owned by Lehmann Brothers. These shares must be sold soon because Lehmann Brothers is being liquidated. Thus, in theory, CVC might own 78.6 percent by July. Thus selling 20 percent would leave them with 58.6 percent and still firmly in control. The rest of the shares are pretty spread out. Bambino Holdings own 8.5 percent and Bernie Ecclestone 5.3 percent, while his staff have 3.6 percent. The rest are irrelevant.”

“So CVC can sell their shares in they want to?” said The Mole. “They own the company.

“As far as we know,” said Penelope (Benenden). “Short of breaking in and reading contracts, it is hard to know more than that.”

“OK,” said The Mole. “Let us assume they can sell and cannot be stopped from doing that. What might stop the flotation?”

“Mercedes-Benz,” said four Penelopes at the same time.

The Mole noted the unanimity.

“I am not an expert on all this,” said Penelope (Benenden), “Not legally, anyway. But I am sure that if a party to a previous deal is excluded from a future contract, there would be questions of constraint of trade, or something like that. There are stories floating about that Ferrari, Red Bull and even McLaren may have been granted seats on the board and you can bet that Mercedes wants similar status. The Formula One group can argue against that, but that could take months and months and that would torpedo any flotation. The other teams may not be big enough to stand up to the Formula One group, but Mercedes certainly is. Whatever the case, even if there was no value in a lawsuit, there could be one and if that happens then nothing is not going to get sorted out by July.”

The Mole nodded.

“You also have to consider the fact that Mercedes supplies engines to three of the 12 teams,” he said. “Thus an aggressive approach towards Mercedes is unlikely make them back down. They can do more damage to F1 than F1 can do to them.”

http://f1mole.wordpress.com/2012/04/27/ ... -holidays/


Mercedes have taken strange decision before and that's why i don't see them backing of this so easily.

Le-Mans remains attractive :O
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 07 May 2012, 14:29  
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The new HRT factory
Image
Image

It's empty but still better than nothing :p
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 07 May 2012, 15:20  
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McLaren tested a higher nose last week

Image

Also, the Socialists won the French election. Bad for Paul Ricard & Spa perhaps. Still, Alesi has more time on his hands now
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 07 May 2012, 15:51  
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mmm interesting. maybe theres more performance to be milked out of that car with the stepped nose... still with that nose, easily the best looking car on the grid.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 07 May 2012, 16:34  
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iceman1 wrote:
@reppo: Did you see Bernie's documentary? You can find it here. I really enjoyed it.

Interesting. Bernie hasn't changed since he was a kid. In FOCA he was fighting for teams to get more money, but now :zz: FIA got the rules, teams got peanuts and Bernie got the business :roll::
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 07 May 2012, 17:23  
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So, Nico won in China but could hardly see where he was driving :O

Quote:
The seating position in a Formula One car is nothing like what we know in road cars. The driver's feet will point upwards and visibility always is critical as they need to be as low as possible in the car not to compromise its centre of gravity. Nico explains how it feels in the car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsvWnGgT7Ok
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 08 May 2012, 11:51  
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Three page article about software development for Lotus:
http://www.cio.com/article/705865/Formula_One_Racing_Team_Speeds_to_Agile_Development
Quote:
Formula One Racing Team Speeds to Agile Development
Lotus F1's IT team made a technology pit stop and changed from a traditional application development strategy to an agile approach. Why shift gears? The pit crew and car designer wanted better data faster -- and IT wasn't about to pass on the opportunity.
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 08 May 2012, 13:14  
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Todt has visited HRT's new building too:
Image
Interestingly one Bernie is worth 87 times of HRT's 2012 budget.

One Bernie is also worth:
4.7 Michael
24.8 Fernando or Kimi
44.9 Lewis
47.11 Jenson
:roll::
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 08 May 2012, 13:16  
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:lol: the HRT boss says they're open to a future name change. Makes sense as since they ditched 'Hispania Racing Team' HRT stands for nothing, apart from, well Google it...

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 08 May 2012, 13:23  
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Maybe they could get a drug company to sponsor them :lol:
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