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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 02 May 2012, 19:14  
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Reports that a Ferrari 312T worth $3.4 was crashed during filming for the new F1 film about Niki Lauda - Rush.
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http://jalopnik.com/5906664/who-crashed ... et-of-rush
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 02 May 2012, 19:24  
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Quote:
Chris Macallister's incredible 1976 Ferrari 312-T2 Historic Gran Prix racer. This is the sister car to the one that Niki Lauda crashed and nearly burned to death in at the Nurburgring in `76. Listen to that 3.0l flat 12 !! MUSIC !!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgdUjPdwxr0

And put volume full :)
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 03 May 2012, 20:06  
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reppo wrote:
F1: Formula One - On And Off Track Week 18 by Berthold Bouman, F1 correspondent
Quote:
Is Formula One tired of the Pirelli tyres

Just like last year, the Pirelli tyres are dominating Formula One, but now drivers start to wonder whether the rapid degradation is a bit more than they have bargained for. Several drivers have criticized the Italian tyre company for this year’s tyre compounds, and several team have again huge problems getting the tyres to work on their 2012 contender.

Seven-times World Champion Michael Schumacher commented after the Bahrain Grand Prix, “I had to drive at a pace to manage the tyres to finish with tyres left over. We should question whether that should be the case. It's unsatisfying and not what a Formula 1 event should be." And he added, “If 80 or 90% complain, maybe Pirelli should think about it. I don't think it is right only one or two teams can handle it and the rest struggle so much.”

And Schumacher has a point, tyre degradation has never been so high, certainly in Bahrain, where most drivers had to take back the throttle to make sure they would make it to finish. “The main thing that I feel a little bit unpleased is I think everybody had to drive well below drivers’ and cars’ limit to maintain the tires,” Schumacher complained. What Schumacher is saying is that the tyres are too much a part of the equation, they should not play such a dominant role in a Grand Prix.

Pirelli was actually asked by the FIA in 2010 before they made their debut in 2011, to produce tyres that would improve the show, and Pirelli did that with tyres that would wear quickly, and spectators would therefore see more pit stops, which would lead to more action on track as drivers had to regain their position after a pit stop. The idea worked and Pirelli was praised by the complete Formula One fraternity, the media, and the fans as well. But now it seems Pirelli has taken it one step too far.

Schumacher isn’t the only driver to voice his concerns. McLaren’s Jenson Button also has his doubts. “Last year, we knew the tyres had high degradation but we understood them. This year, I don't really know what to make of the tyres,” but he said, “it's not an excuse because other people are doing a good job on them this weekend.” And McLaren Team Principal Martin Whitmarsh agreed, “He who understands the tyres first, will have a huge advantage in the world championship.”

Schumacher’s other argument that drivers cannot drive at the limit anymore also makes sense. Schumacher, Kimi Raikkonen and Fernando Alonso are drivers who always drive their car at the very limit, but they can’t do that anymore, driving three laps at the limit means the tyres are completely gone. Raikkonen proved it in China and Bahrain.

In China he was second with nine laps to go, but his tyres hit the cliff, the point where they start to lose grip, and four laps later he was in 14th position. On lap 43 he lapped the circuit in 1m41.794s, and on lap 49, after trying to hard, his lap time had dropped to 1m47.739s.

Lotus and Raikkonen did learn a lesson in China, in Bahrain Raikkonen was confronted with the same problem, when he had caught up with Sebastian Vettel who was leading the race, he had only one opportunity to overtake the German. He failed to do so and after that Raikkonen had to settle for second place as he knew another attempt might spell the end of the life of his Pirelli tyres.

Of course everyone wanted to see a battle between the two, but the tyres didn’t allow it to happen. In this case Pirelli achieved the opposite, fans want more action on track, but spectators were deprived of what could have been another epic Formula One battle for victory. After all, the name of the game is “who gets to the finish line first” and not “who is world champion in preserving tyres”.

Pirelli Director of Motorsport Paul Hembery was disappointed by Schumacher’s comments, "I'm disappointed to hear those comments from someone of Michael's experience. Others were getting on with the job and getting their tyres to work. His comments during winter testing were that he was very happy with the tyres, and now he seems to have changed his tune.”

And Schumacher later replied, “If it was a one-off car issue, you could say it's up to us to deal with it. But basically it is everybody, with maybe one or two exceptions, and if it is 80% of the field that has this problem, then maybe the tyre supplier should think about that. I'm not happy about the situation, let's see what happens in future.”


Personally, he should STFU about tyres. When Bridgestone had a clear advantage, he shrugged it off as 'thats the competition', when Michelin had stronger tyres, he criticised. Lets go further; When Bridgestone made tyres that weren't durable enough, they were slated. When they made rubber that could do a whole race and do a Kobayashi/Trulli train, people complained.

Tyres are always being complained about. Be it Bridestones advantage and relationship with Ferrari, Be it Michellin's rubber under the no tyre change rule being much better, be it Michelin's superior wet weather tyre, it was moaned about by the non-benefitting party. IMO, Tyres are the one thing keeping your car on the road. You build around that. If you cant get your tyres to work, then its tough in my opinion. Pirelli are doing what is requested by the FIA.

Gone are the days of tyre innovation. Gone are the tyre war, which saw Michelin and Bridgestone trying to make the better tyre, being innovative in both compound and treat patterning. I recal Ted Kravitz at the 2006 hungarian GP on about how innovative Michelin's wet tyres were and how much more detailed and perfecting the tread patterning was to ensure maximum dispersion of water to give maximum amounts of grip.

We lost innovation in F1 frankly. Goodyear, Michelin, Continental, Dunlop; They all create tyres for motorsports, but the problem is F1 wont adopt 16-18inch rims. These premium tyre companies will not go so backwards to the 13inch rim. Why? Because its not innovative. 13inch is ancient, it has no relevance to modern day tyres, tyre demands. These companies want it to reflect massively on their road tyres and use it as a selling point. They want to be able to use the data and money spent on the F1 product into road tyres.

How come Le mans, Touring Cars, WRC, porsche cup, clio cup etc all have similar size alloy wheels? Because its relevant. F1 has lost its relevance to modern day demands by tyre companies. Michelin and Goodyear refused to come back because they wont spent millions investing in tyres which are effectively prototypes with no relevance to road tyres.

F1 is its own worst enemy, thats why we had Pirelli (which im sorry, are terrible road tyres. I had P6000's on my renault and they were abhorrent, and many, many user feedback and reviews back up the Pirelli being poor. I swear by Michelin (hence why I have Pilot Sport 3's at £624 for all 4 corners, which beats Kwik-fits quote of £219 per tyre ) Bridgestone or Continentals because of their impeccable reputation. And I loved Michelin in F1, Moto GP, WRC and Le Mans, which to be honest is why I buy them, aside from being superb tyres.

The only other Supplier who accepted 13inch tyres was Kumho, a horrid budget brand (c**p tyres on my grandfathers Ford Fusion, and I mean, absolutly abysmal)
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 04 May 2012, 10:58  
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For the first time ever, my predictions have been quite good - I said Perez to be the big surprise :p
http://www.f1zone.net/news/season-previ ... ews/12835/

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 04 May 2012, 14:16  
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You must be happy because Alexander Rossi will test the Caterham car during the Spanish Grand Prix.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99351

You interviewed him before the season. Good Job!
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 04 May 2012, 14:22  
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It's funny you should mention it...
http://www.f1zone.net/news/alexander-ro ... iver/9983/

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 04 May 2012, 19:21  
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Well, Phil ''hmm'' how about next weeks lottery numbers :pray:
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 04 May 2012, 20:06  
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In theory low profile tyres have lower longitudinal grip and lower heat dissipation, which could lead overheating and blistering easily. However 13" rims are ancient. NASCAR and CART uses 15" and F1 could use the same IMHO. 18" could be overdoing it, but 16" would do fine. Lower profile tyres would effect suspension too because of lower sides of the tyre. It would mean more thinking and possibilities to engineer, which might be interesting. 13" rims are primeval and should be dumped.

It is weird if I Pirelli decides to leave F1 and the only alternative would be Kumho. I checked what people say about it, and the main reason to buy them is price. Someone said the only good thing in them is they wear fast and then you can (must) buy better tyres.
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 04 May 2012, 20:54  
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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Bridgestone drop out because it was too expensive AND there was no value in continuing to produce tires for F1 due to the rim size?
Thus the FIA approached Pirelli and they cooked up this idea about faster wearing tires to induce more pit stops and create the very nightmare we are all watching as competitive drivers and cars are forced to motor around for lap after lap "saving" their tires in order to just finish the race.
I think it shows how disconnected Schumacher is when he complains about Pirelli's tires when he should be complaining about the executive decisions made by the governing body.
How was Vettel able to turn up the wick on his car when he was running on used mediums and others had new tires to use?
The only way to get out of this dilemma is to change the rim size and open the tire field to competition.
Isn't one of the reasons F1 cars are still running 13" rims is to keep the cars extremely low to the ground without making them look freakish with towering tires?
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 05 May 2012, 15:20  
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This is so cool :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSDUcKw-GOk&t=29s

Please Phil don't do that :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 05 May 2012, 15:45  
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I've heard people imitating people, birds, dogs... but cars. He's got talent :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 05 May 2012, 16:31  
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Bridgestone came to F1 to get publicity in Europe. Then Goodyear left and later Michelin too and they were the only tyre supplier in F1. They got what they wanted and there was no longer such marketing value left any more.

Using higher rim dimension doesn't mean higher tyre dimension. It depends on the profile of the tyre. Current F1 tyres are 270/55 R13 in front and 325/45 R13 rear, where 270 and 325 are the width of the tyre in millimeters and 55 and 45 are the side wall size in percentage of the width. Changing only the rim size and not the profile would not make F1 tyres more attractive to tyre manufacturers. It would only mean that one nowhere else used tyre size is changed to an other nowhere else used tyre size.

The trend in street cars is to lower profile tyres even to 215/40 R18 in front and 245/35 R18 in rear, but ultra low profile is not used in any motor sport series because it doesn't improve car handling. They may look cool, but they are not the best for racing. Although FIA should change tyre rules to more common with other motor sport. That may also depend on what teams want, and maybe thay are not so keen to change rules since it could mean significant redesigning of suspension.
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 05 May 2012, 16:38  
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Indycar have 15inch;

Image

Lemans lmp1 have gorgeous 19inch wheels;

Image

WRC have 17inch alloys;

Image

Touring cars use 17inch too;

Image

Clio cup also use 17inch alloy wheels;

Image

No car in the world uses 13inch alloy wheels in modern day. Even the missus' Citroen C1 has 14inch wheel trims.
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 05 May 2012, 17:59  
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iceman1 wrote:
This is so cool :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSDUcKw-GOk&t=29s

Please Phil don't do that :lol:

Wuau!

My favourite part is the fixing of the wheelnuts in the F1 pit-stop :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion
PostPosted: 05 May 2012, 18:35  
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Yes mikhailv, bigger the rims the better :cool:
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Indycar (IRL, CART) are not ultra low profile. I can't now remember is rim size specified in LMP. I think only diameter and width is defined and most uses 18" rims. That Peugeot is weird anyway; it's hybrid diesel :blink: WRC tyres depend on surface and Michelin makes 235/40R18 (20/65-18) for asphalt, 205/65R15 (17/65-15) for gravel and 215/45R18 (18/65-18) and 195/65R15 (15/65-15) for snow and ice. And of course there is hard, soft and super soft compounds.

I didn't remember Le Mans series but I was thinking mostly open wheel series. LMP uses very low profiles. And FIA should dump 13'' - it is history :<>:
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