2012 Formula One Discussion

This forum gives you a chance to be able to communicate with your fellow F1 fans.
Locked
cherryxgrenade
car driver
car driver
Posts: 16
Joined: 25 Sep 2011, 11:24
Location: Manchester, England, UK
Contact:

Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by cherryxgrenade » 05 Dec 2011, 22:55

I'm going to say, I'm glad that Sky HD customers don't have to pay for the F1 channel. But that's going to be an absolute ballache when I go to Iceland.

If Paul Di Resta doesn't get a seat net year I will have a cardiac.
If Vitaly doesn't get a seat net year I will kill someone.

Seriously. For Force India to drop Di Resta would be crazy. I think Hulkenberg is returning though, I dunno why. I just think he will, especially when you consider just how poor, by comparison to Paul, that Adrian Sutil was.

I'm just a Vitaly fan. That won't change.

User avatar
iceman1
F1 Legend
F1 Legend
Posts: 23702
Joined: 16 Sep 2006, 15:50
Location: North Pole
Contact:

Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by iceman1 » 06 Dec 2011, 01:27

cherryxgrenade wrote:If Vitaly doesn't get a seat net year I will kill someone.

Please don't, you'll end up in jail and you won't be able to follow the races anymore :lol:

So according to French websites, Lotus-Renault will announce Grosjean today as their 2nd driver.

Petrov is negotiating with Virgin (Russian + cash).

User avatar
phil1993
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25503
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 17:32
Contact:

Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by phil1993 » 06 Dec 2011, 09:00

Petrov getting a seat at the expense of Glock?

No thanks.

User avatar
donald29
F1 Routinier
F1 Routinier
Posts: 4007
Joined: 25 May 2007, 17:52
Location: Kent

Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by donald29 » 06 Dec 2011, 11:00

If Virgin dropped Glock for Petrov... there are no words to describe how stupid this would be.

User avatar
phil1993
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25503
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 17:32
Contact:

Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by phil1993 » 06 Dec 2011, 11:46

Indeed.

Lotus need some stability though, although I'm going to do an EJ by saying they'd be better off taking Grosjean rather than keeping Petrov. The latter is too erratic, not reliable enough etc.

This team has been through a hell of a lot in the 5 seasons since Alonso left - Crashgate, massive management restructure and now a new name. Dropping all ties with Renault would be a good way to move on. I mean, stability is crucial for a team. Ferrari's 2000-04 domination: stabilty - almost the same backroom guys & Schumi/Rubens at the helm. Red Bull are the kings at the moment and have fielded the same line up for the last three seasons, with Webber on board since 2007.

The team has had so many driver changes in a short time:
2006 - Alonso | Fisichella
2007 - Fisichella | Kovalainen
2008 - Alonso | Piquet
2009 - Alonso | Piquet, Grosjean
2010 - Kubica | Petrov
2011 - Heidfeld, Senna | Petrov

At this rate, it must be pretty demoralising for staff to wonder what the next step is and who they'll be making a car for in 2013.

User avatar
f1freak
GP2 Driver
GP2 Driver
Posts: 322
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 07:46

Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by f1freak » 06 Dec 2011, 11:56

phil1993 wrote:Indeed.

Lotus need some stability though, although I'm going to do an EJ by saying they'd be better off taking Grosjean rather than keeping Petrov. The latter is too erratic, not reliable enough etc.

This team has been through a hell of a lot in the 5 seasons since Alonso left - Crashgate, massive management restructure and now a new name. Dropping all ties with Renault would be a good way to move on. I mean, stability is crucial for a team. Ferrari's 2000-04 domination: stabilty - almost the same backroom guys & Schumi/Rubens at the helm. Red Bull are the kings at the moment and have fielded the same line up for the last three seasons, with Webber on board since 2007.

The team has had so many driver changes in a short time:
2006 - Alonso | Fisichella
2007 - Fisichella | Kovalainen
2008 - Alonso | Piquet
2009 - Alonso | Piquet, Grosjean
2010 - Kubica | Petrov
2011 - Heidfeld, Senna | Petrov


Maybe they are having a lottery system or a fortune teller :lol:

cherryxgrenade
car driver
car driver
Posts: 16
Joined: 25 Sep 2011, 11:24
Location: Manchester, England, UK
Contact:

Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by cherryxgrenade » 06 Dec 2011, 14:34

I just think that him moving to Virgin would be a detriment to him anyway. We know that the car's UNBELIEVABLY slow.

Lotus would do well to keep him, particularly because of said stupidly erratic driver changes. At the end of the day, he won't improve if he's put in a worse car. Everyone knows that.

If he did go to Virgin, he would end up being demoted to test driver.

No.

Just no.


iceman1 wrote:Please don't, you'll end up in jail and you won't be able to follow the races anymore :lol:


It's going to be very difficult for me to follow races from August next year. I will have to somehow tune in to Norwegian TV... or get the races from here, cause Iceland don't broadcast them.
:blink:

User avatar
majidasadi
GP2 Driver
GP2 Driver
Posts: 237
Joined: 03 Sep 2011, 05:29

Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by majidasadi » 06 Dec 2011, 14:49

that is going to be a big mistake replacing Glock with Petrov (as iceman wrote it is logical, he is russian and the team needs some sponsor money too) Glock is what virgin needs right now, he is exprienced and can lead the team,HRT has De la rosa, Caterham has Kovalainen and virgin needs a leader too, having two young drivers at a team that is in the learning process is a big mistake
A craven can be as brave as any man, when there is nothing to fear. And we all do our duty, when there is no cost to it. How easy it seems then, to walk the path of honor.

cherryxgrenade
car driver
car driver
Posts: 16
Joined: 25 Sep 2011, 11:24
Location: Manchester, England, UK
Contact:

Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by cherryxgrenade » 06 Dec 2011, 14:58

I agree. I think that he should just stay where he is.

Relegating him to test driver will make us Petrov fans FURIOUS.

User avatar
phil1993
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25503
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 17:32
Contact:

Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by phil1993 » 06 Dec 2011, 17:36

I'd rather give RoGro a shot. He's bloody good.

Some HRT news news/hrt-looking-to-build-in-2012/10846/

User avatar
mikhailv
F1 Routinier
F1 Routinier
Posts: 4110
Joined: 31 Mar 2008, 15:27
Location: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire

Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by mikhailv » 06 Dec 2011, 20:01

cherryxgrenade wrote:I'm going to say, I'm glad that Sky HD customers don't have to pay for the F1 channel. But that's going to be an absolute ballache when I go to Iceland.

If Paul Di Resta doesn't get a seat net year I will have a cardiac.
If Vitaly doesn't get a seat net year I will kill someone.

Seriously. For Force India to drop Di Resta would be crazy. I think Hulkenberg is returning though, I dunno why. I just think he will, especially when you consider just how poor, by comparison to Paul, that Adrian Sutil was.

I'm just a Vitaly fan. That won't change.


For real? I mean, actually serious? Di resta has been rubbish. Sorry, he has. He hasn't done anything impressive. Often he went on a one stopper, didnt be aggressive and leapfrogged. He might have got in Q3, but he didnt bother setting a time and saved tyres which is good for strategy, bad for the sport and spectators. but to say Paul Di Resta, who has 15 points less than Adrian which is 55% more than Di resta. in 12 races, Di resta went backwards from his qualifying performance, where as sutil moved forward. Adrian finished in 6th place twice, Di resta once. Sutil outqualified Di Resta 10/9.

Sutil scored more points, finished in higher positions more often and outqualified di resta overall. So how anyone can say that Di resta was rookie of the year and was better than sutil, is crazy. Di resta has been forgetful in races. I only recal seeing him nearly avoid lewis when he spun round and lewis got a penalty.

Not just you, but pundits everywhere. To me, and ill be frank, he is a boring scot who wont every win a race and will always be a journeyman type.

Sutil and Kimi at renault would be brilliant. Petrov also, is rubbish. Its joke how he only just finished 3 points ahead of Heidfeld, and heidfeld was completly wrongfully outed, and he raced 8 races more. Hell he only scored 1 point more than Bruno senna in the last 8 races let alone being outqualified by senna 6 TIMES. Downright laughable, petrov is.

User avatar
phil1993
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25503
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 17:32
Contact:

Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by phil1993 » 06 Dec 2011, 20:10

di Resta is better than you're making out and he lost a handful of points with a ridiculous DTP in Montreal & Force India turning into the Cirque du Soleil in Britain. However, Sutil was still better than him. Got to remember that it was di Resta's rookie season while it was Sutil's 5th. Saying that, the BBC love in was ridiculous.

And I agree regarding Petrov
news/driver-reviews-part-two/10842/

User avatar
François
F1 Driver
F1 Driver
Posts: 1479
Joined: 05 Sep 2009, 18:39

Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by François » 06 Dec 2011, 20:28

phil1993 wrote:Some HRT news news/hrt-looking-to-build-in-2012/10846/

These quotes have a somewhat disturbing "ethnic cleansing" ring to them. I don't think anything good is going to come out of that spanish shake-up: firstly because to succeed in F1 you need the best, most competent people available, full stop, and not many of them are spanish; secondly because the team is bound to fold when support and/or interest in the sport from Spain dwindles, which will inevitably happen at some point: Spain, like much of the Euro zone, has a crippled economy because of massive public debt, and the amount of public money invested into the sport (two GPs a year!) is bound to be questioned.

Have there actually been any examples in recent F1 history of a "national team" achieving reasonable success? As far as I remember, Prost GP was doomed from the start when the political majority that backed its creation were kicked out of office early; Ferrari never succeeded with italian drivers (at least not in the last two decades) or management (but keep trying, Mr Domenicalli); Mercedes GP hasn't achieved its targets, nor much at all really; Force India has never had an Indian driver race for them, and is more English than anything else anyway... do I also need to mention the USF1 fiasco?
Image

User avatar
phil1993
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25503
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 17:32
Contact:

Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by phil1993 » 06 Dec 2011, 20:39

Well, the problem is they're fighting a battle they may well lose.

6 of the 12 teams in F1 are based in 'Motorsport Valley' in the UK, and two others in the UK as well. Ferrari & STR in Italy, with Sauber in Switzerland.

Then you have HRT, alone in Spain. Logistically, it'll be hard to lure others away from their teams. Once Fernando Alonso retires, interest in Spanish motorsport is likely to dwindle, unless of course they find a new superstar. Then they could be buggered.

And yes, 'national teams' rarely work out. Force India is trying to find an Indian driver, but the whole team is based directly opposite to Silverstone (their factory is actually right at the roundabout at Silverstone, with the entrance to the track on the left). Mercedes may have two Germans, but the team is in fact English. It's based about 10 miles from Silverstone.

The most national team in F1 is probably McLaren, based in Woking and with two British drivers. However, the engines are made in Stuttgart and the company is owned by non-British companies.

F1 is too much of an international (or pan-European anyway) sport for a team to function as a national team.

Mar
F1 Routinier
F1 Routinier
Posts: 3017
Joined: 20 Oct 2010, 08:48

Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by Mar » 06 Dec 2011, 21:12

phil1993 wrote:Well, the problem is they're fighting a battle they may well lose.

6 of the 12 teams in F1 are based in 'Motorsport Valley' in the UK, and two others in the UK as well. Ferrari & STR in Italy, with Sauber in Switzerland.

Then you have HRT, alone in Spain. Logistically, it'll be hard to lure others away from their teams. Once Fernando Alonso retires, interest in Spanish motorsport is likely to dwindle, unless of course they find a new superstar. Then they could be buggered.

The new owner of HRT explained during the press conference to announce Martínez de la Rosa that, at the moment, the team has people working in the UK, in Germany and in Spain. Of course, they can't continue in that direction. If moving to Spain is the right solution? I personally don't think that is the best option. If you want to improve, you need certain good professionals and most of them live since long in the UK (regardless of their nationalities), and they don't want to move their families around.
BUT, the guys of HRT have very, very good political contacts and they are getting favours from the government of Valencia that has just given them a place for their team.

Yep, once Alonso disappears the interest will dramatically sink. As a matter of fact it is sinking already because he doesn't win. Most of the motorsport "fans" here discovered motorsport with Alonso. I still remember when I had to buy foreign press on Tuesdays (it arrived with delay) if I wanted to know what had happened in the race the previous weekend :<>:

phil1993 wrote:And yes, 'national teams' rarely work out. Force India is trying to find an Indian driver, but the whole team is based directly opposite to Silverstone (their factory is actually right at the roundabout at Silverstone, with the entrance to the track on the left). Mercedes may have two Germans, but the team is in fact English. It's based about 10 miles from Silverstone.

The most national team in F1 is probably McLaren, based in Woking and with two British drivers. However, the engines are made in Stuttgart and the company is owned by non-British companies.

F1 is too much of an international (or pan-European anyway) sport for a team to function as a national team.

Agree, a national team rarely works out: you can never have the best employees if you just focus on one nationality.

It doesn't have any connection with chances of being successful or not, but now that we are already at it, when a team goes all nationalistic it also alienates the supporters. It gets you more supporters in your country but takes all the others away from you. An example, McLaren has been my favourite team for many, many years. But I begun not to like them that much when they begun to talk about how British they are and how great that was. I have nothing against Britons, on the contrary, but it is difficult to like a team that considers you second class. Probably, they didn't want to sell it that way, but it is the way it felt.

EDIT: a very silly typo :blush:

Locked