2012 Formula One Discussion

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MavF1
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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by MavF1 » 09 Nov 2012, 20:56

tderias wrote:Well the partners need Red Bull more than Red Bull need the partners, so if there's any disagreement between them, there's a long queue of partners waiting to join the leading team in the sport.


You're right, but that wasn't my point. My perception is that the other top teams are not as quick at pointing their fingers at their suppliers when something goes wrong. If a part on a car fails, then the team can discuss the reasons for that internally and look at who's responsible behind closed doors. Publicly putting the blame on a particular supplier just isn't necessary.
Last edited by MavF1 on 10 Nov 2012, 09:45, edited 1 time in total.

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mikhailv
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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by mikhailv » 09 Nov 2012, 21:03

Horner has always been the same dickhead though. if it goes right. Great job redbull, thanks Renault. If something goes wrong, Redbull innocent, Renault slaughtered. Always renaults fault if something goes wrong. Nothing to do with redbull in the slightest.

other teams just say 'we had a failure' not 'RENAULT caused us the failure so we will most deffinitely be talking to them about it. And we want them to ditch Magnetti Marelli' for example. Pompous pricks, that RedBull team is full of.

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by François » 09 Nov 2012, 23:40

On the other hand there are absolutely no pricks at Ferrari. :roll::
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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by phil1993 » 10 Nov 2012, 11:24

That's because when a part fails - which is rare - it is Ferrari's own fault.

Red Bull's failures have been caused by Renault.

McLaren's failure in Abu Dhabi was caused by Mercedes, which is what Whitmarsh said.

If you're going to pick on a team boss for being a two-faced (insert expletive here), then choose the one who resides in Woking.

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by donald29 » 10 Nov 2012, 12:43

I think Horner is guilty of double standards at times (particularly over Mercedes' Double DRS) but then they all are at times. Comes with the job of team principal.

McLaren have been pretty poorly run lately though. Their (Hamilton, Button, Whitmarsh) comments about Vettel being lucky in Abu Dhabi annoyed me. Yes, he was fortunate with the safety car. But Martin, look in the mirror before accusing others of 'being lucky.' Look at all the failures, the pitstop problems. McLaren have thrown this championship away. Lewis should be right up there, yes Jenson has had some problems too but his own lack of performance is as much to blame as anything.

Best car, 3rd in the Constructors'. And they've capped it off by making the wrong decision when signing a replacement driver for Hamilton...

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It's a shame, as I actually like Whitmarsh.

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by reppo » 10 Nov 2012, 13:38

Whitmarsh is starting to look like a sore loser

http://www.f1zone.net/news/whitmarsh-hopes-hamilton-regrets-leaving-mclaren/16629/

Why is he whining about it. He ought to ask himself if McLaren's operations over the years with many drivers have something to do with Hamilton's desision. Mercedes will not be his last team. Lewis might after year or two go to RBR or Ferrari. And why not.

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by mikhailv » 11 Nov 2012, 10:41

François wrote:On the other hand there are absolutely no pricks at Ferrari. :roll::


But I dont care about Ferrari, because I dont like the team in the slightest :P

And Mclaren/Twitmarsh arent as bad as redbull/Horner. The relationship soured with Mercedes. Neither RB or Mclaren can admit to their own mistakes without giving an excuse. Whitmarsh doesnt bask in mclaren glory and then blame Mercedes for failure akin to how RB are

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by phil1993 » 12 Nov 2012, 10:52

Sebastian Vettel's most memorable races
http://www.f1zone.net/news/vettel-hits- ... ury/16646/

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by Eric_Cartman » 12 Nov 2012, 11:27

Thanks a lot Phil! :)

some more special drives from Vettel:
- Monaco 2008 (from P19 to P5 in the rain)
- Valencia 2008 (6th place in the bad Toro Rosso)
- Brazil 2008 (overtakes Hamilton and nearly takes the championship away from him)
- China 2009 (his first win with Red Bull in the rain)
- Brazil 2009 (from P15 to P4)
- Italy 2010 (4th place with a pit stop on the last lap)
- India 2011 (Vettel's first grand slam - pure domination)
- Spa 2012 (from P10 to P2)
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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by phil1993 » 12 Nov 2012, 11:51

Ones I was close to including was Valencia 2008 and India 2011. The hallmark of a great driver is so many great drivers to think of!

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by Edi96 » 15 Nov 2012, 00:30

Toro Rosso will leave Ferrari and use Renault-engines starting in 2014!

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by mikhailv » 15 Nov 2012, 09:21

Eric_Cartman wrote:Thanks a lot Phil! :)

some more special drives from Vettel:
- Monaco 2008 (from P19 to P5 in the rain)
- Valencia 2008 (6th place in the bad Toro Rosso)
- Brazil 2008 (overtakes Hamilton and nearly takes the championship away from him)
- China 2009 (his first win with Red Bull in the rain)
- Brazil 2009 (from P15 to P4)
- Italy 2010 (4th place with a pit stop on the last lap)
- India 2011 (Vettel's first grand slam - pure domination)
- Spa 2012 (from P10 to P2)


Special drives? Monaco was great. Valencia ws great. Brazil was ok. Thing is, Toro Rosso was always superb in the wet. China wasn't special, it was lights-to-flag victory, 10 seconds ahead of Webber and 44 ahead of Button in 3rd. brazil wasnt special either, that was the best car and was out of position like half the grid due to the downpour in quali; Hulk got pole didnt he. Monza 2010 wasnt special either, had a problem for a few laps, it went away, just drove the rest of the race until the last lap, while others pitted and the gamble paid off. it wasnt vettels driving, it was simply strategy gamble and finished where he should have; 3rd best car finishing 4th after Hamilton going for a gap that didnt exist.

India was supreme, Spa 2012 is laughable though, Maldanado jump start, Grosjean took out Alonso, Hamilton, Himself, Perez and damaged Kobayashi. so thats 6 cars vettel didnt have to bother with and went to 6th immediately. The only overtakes vettel did was on Senna, Webber, schumacher and Massa...... impressive indeed there.

Personally, vettels best races are;

Indy 2007, China 2007,Monaco and Monza 2008, India 2011. Problem with seb is, I cant think of any great races aside from his early ones and his grand chelem, where he has not been cruising up front. When theres pressure or he's further back, he either makes a meal out of things, has collisions, or like spa; doesnt actually do much because half the top 10 are took out.

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by phil1993 » 15 Nov 2012, 10:07

Vettel was actually one of the main losers of the crash and dropped to 12th in Belgium

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by mikhailv » 15 Nov 2012, 10:37

phil1993 wrote:Vettel was actually one of the main losers of the crash and dropped to 12th in Belgium


But he still benefitted from 6 faster cars being took out ahead of him. Id hardly say Toro Rosso, Mercedes, Force india and williams were much of a challenge. And again it shows, he overtakes 4 slower cars and just uses strategy. We've seen how he whinges to the team because he cant overtake, so he moans to the pit wall if they can do anything. He isnt a racer, hes a driver.

And he qualified 11th so he only lost 1 position at the start in technical fact, but still. he took a few clearly slower drivers and thats it. Identical to abu dhabi.

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Re: 2012 Formula One Discussion

Post by Eric_Cartman » 15 Nov 2012, 21:30

mikhailv wrote:
phil1993 wrote:Vettel was actually one of the main losers of the crash and dropped to 12th in Belgium


But he still benefitted from 6 faster cars being took out ahead of him. Id hardly say Toro Rosso, Mercedes, Force india and williams were much of a challenge. And again it shows, he overtakes 4 slower cars and just uses strategy. We've seen how he whinges to the team because he cant overtake, so he moans to the pit wall if they can do anything. He isnt a racer, hes a driver.

And he qualified 11th so he only lost 1 position at the start in technical fact, but still. he took a few clearly slower drivers and thats it. Identical to abu dhabi.


But in Spa Red Bull was the slowest car on the straight. It's more difficult to overtake some cars than in a Ferrari. That's why Vettel couldn't overtake a single car at the DRS-zone. And remember that Webber wasn't able to pass Senna in that race.

The race in Abu Dhabi proved once again that he can overtake if he needs to. With the low downforce setup it wasn't a problem for him to overtake 32 cars!

But Vettel haters won't understand that it's nearly impossible to pass a car that is about 10 kmph faster on the straight, even with DRS. So why shouldn't he ask the team if they can do something about it?
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