2011-12 Silly Season

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reppo
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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by reppo » 09 Jan 2012, 15:35

Oh dear. Joe Saward says it :zz:
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/01/ ... e-madonna/
Joe Saward wrote:‘Jaime Alguersuari turns down HRT’ and ‘Dr Marko says the Toro Rosso drivers were not good enough’. Thanks Helmut, they will say, that really helps our careers. One has to feel a little sorry for the pair, being written off before either has got beyond 23… If Helmut Marko had been running schemes earlier in F1, there would have been no Nigel Mansell and no Damon Hill and no Mark Webber… as it seems that drivers can only be winners if they are ready at a wildly young age. This may have a downside as some young drivers find that they have nothing else in their lives when they reach the ends of their careers. Not that Marko cares. His goal is to get World Championships for Red Bull, not look after the drivers who achieve it.
STR has became kind of high school of RBR's driver academy. To graduate from STR to RBR driver needs to win a race :fear: What if Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes and even Lotus or Williams (if they ever have enough money) also wants to set up a junior team to test young drivers. Where would that lead. I have understood that teams should be independent according the rule book but apparently that doesn't concern management. :huh:

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by frubbs » 09 Jan 2012, 16:15

it is funny that Alg is too young to be dropped from a team, but going to HRT is a step back in his career...
It think HRT is a great oportunity to a young driver and it is a step FORWARD if he adds an other season in his carreer, even if it is in a bad car.

Vettel is not an ordinary case and people should not try to follow his steps, but make its own path instead.

HRT is a F1 TEAM! Makes the best possible with its budget. Media and drivers often disrespect the team, that is not nice.

Is Jaime so better than HTR to turn it down ?
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sleenster
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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by sleenster » 09 Jan 2012, 16:37

I hope Alguersuari has some better options, because it really looks silly to turn down HRT and the Red Bull reserve role :roll::

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by Treacle » 09 Jan 2012, 17:04

How do you know he was offered the RBR reserve role? Seemed to me that Buemi got it without having to fight for it...
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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by Eric_Cartman » 09 Jan 2012, 17:16

frubbs wrote:it is funny that Alg is too young to be dropped from a team, but going to HRT is a step back in his career...
It think HRT is a great oportunity to a young driver and it is a step FORWARD if he adds an other season in his carreer, even if it is in a bad car.

Vettel is not an ordinary case and people should not try to follow his steps, but make its own path instead.

HRT is a F1 TEAM! Makes the best possible with its budget. Media and drivers often disrespect the team, that is not nice.

Is Jaime so better than HTR to turn it down ?
Moving to one of the new teams doesn't make sense for an established driver like Alguersuari because no one really cares if you're driving well. Just look at Kovalainen or Glock. They're getting the best out of their cars, but the teams don't take notice when they still finish 2 or 3 laps behind the race winner.

Nevertheless I believe that Lotus is the only new team that could be able to catch the midfield in terms of performance.
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sleenster
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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by sleenster » 09 Jan 2012, 17:30

Treacle wrote:How do you know he was offered the RBR reserve role? Seemed to me that Buemi got it without having to fight for it...
I recall reading some rumours that quoted Spanish media as saying that Red Bull offered the reserve role to Alguersuari first, but he turned it down and so Buemi got it. But I don't know if there is some agenda there or not...

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reppo
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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by reppo » 09 Jan 2012, 17:33

There would have been more options for Jaime if he had known his position earlier. I think he is better than HRT. HRT is a risk. What if their car turns out to really poor this year. It wasn't anything spectacular in 2011 either. Then the only comparison is Pedro de la Rosa. How good is that. Was he ever even offered a reserve driver seat in RBR? He isn't exactly Marko's favorite.

He is young, four years younger than Grosjean. So there is still time to get up from bad team even if one year is missed. He could have even gone back to a good GP2 team if he had known earlier. His manager should have considered plan B if things doesn't work out as they were expecting. Who is his manager anyway?

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by sleenster » 09 Jan 2012, 17:44

It probably true that Marko does not like Alguersuari very much but he does have several things in his favour: he finished 11 points ahead of Buemi and he seems to have more "potential" even though he is younger than Buemi, i.e. he looked like he was continuing to improve in the second half of 2011

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by reppo » 09 Jan 2012, 18:01

sleenster wrote:It probably true that Marko does not like Alguersuari very much but he does have several things in his favour: he finished 11 points ahead of Buemi and he seems to have more "potential" even though he is younger than Buemi, i.e. he looked like he was continuing to improve in the second half of 2011
Indeed he did. Since Turkey he was on points 7 times out of 13 races scoring 26 points. Compared to 5 points in 2010 or 0 points in 2009 which was his first year in F1, if that is not remarkable improvement I don't know what is. :confused: Considering what Marko has been talking lately maybe RBR reserve driver would not have been a good option for him. I just hope he finds a seat and comes back.

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by frubbs » 09 Jan 2012, 18:16

I dont see GP2 as a better option than HRT.
If you race in F1, you are in touch with people and , the most important to me, you get used to the F1, rules, tyres and every detail that affect all teams and are unique to F1.
For a young driver, makes all difference to live the day-by-day of a F1 team, experience the weekends and all.

Look at B.Senna... he is about to drive a williams after driving a half season for Renault. And everything started with Hispania.
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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by phil1993 » 09 Jan 2012, 18:19

We cannot be physic with regards to Jaime. There are several options; if I were him I'd be trying to get a Force India reserve gig. Going to GP2 is risky, ditto HRT. However, if he can get a long term deal with HRT, it might reap rewards. Who knows.

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by François » 09 Jan 2012, 18:39

Not to write off HRT or anything, but I'll be amazed if that team achieves anything worthy of the "long term" phrase, especially with their newly announced nationalistic switch of focus. In my opinion it's not worth much for a young driver to go there because (1) I get the feeling they may fold anytime and (2) they've shown plenty of times that they value sponsor money far more than raw skills (hello Yamamoto).

On the other hand it's a bit tough to compare his career path with Grosjean's, as the latter had only driven half a season of Formula 1 before he went on to dominate all the junior series he contested during two years and got the call back on merit. Alguersuari has driven two seasons and a half in F1. He has absolutely no business in GP2 or any other junior series. Since the number of available race seats has shrunk quite dramatically, his best bet might be to look for a reserve role in a respectable team and bide his time.
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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by iceman1 » 10 Jan 2012, 13:40

Jerome D'Ambrosio expects a decision within 10 days from now. He said to a french website that the situation is "stable" and he's working hard to stay in F1.

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by reppo » 10 Jan 2012, 14:06

Well I had to check my information and I no longer know what would be best option for Alguersuari. So I made a table about what drivers have been doing for last 4 years. The table doesn't look pretty because I didn't how to paste a table and tabs and multiple spaces are converted to single space. So I used dots instead. TD is test or third driver, FR means Formula Renault. The table is not complete and I most likely have missed some information. Some drivers were very busy so I listed only best results to save space. Under each year there are F1 team or series and drivers position at the and of year. Some drivers did not drive a full season in same series like for example Pedro de la Rosa who had only 1 F1 race in 2011. The souce of information is formula1.com and Wikipedia. For Alguersuari going to Force India as reserve driver is not too bad option unless he can collect a huge amount of sponsor money and try to go to Williams. But isn't that already Senna's seat. At least according Senna's sponsors.

Driver / Team 2012.......2008............................2009...............................2010.............................2011

Red Bull Racing Renault
1 Sebastian Vettel.........STR 8th ......................RBR 2nd..........................RBR 1st.........................RBR 1st
2 Mark Webber..............RBR 11th......................RBR 4th...........................RBR 3rd........................RBR 3rd

McLaren Mercedes
3 Jenson Button.............Honda 18th...................Brawn 1st........................McLaren 5th..................McLaren 2nd
4 Lewis Hamilton............McLaren 1st..................McLaren 5th.....................McLaren 4th..................McLaren 5th

Ferrari
5 Fernando Alonso.........Renault 5th....................Renault 9th.......................Ferrari 2nd..................Ferrari 4th
6 Felipe Massa...............Ferrari 2nd.....................Ferrari 11th......................Ferrari 6th...................Ferrari 6th

Mercedes
7 Michael Schumacher.....-....................................-.....................................Mercedes 9th...............Mercedes 8th
8 Nico Rosberg...............Williams 13th..................Williams 7th.....................Mercedes 7th................Mercedes 7th

Lotus Renault
9 Kimi Raikkonen............Ferrari 3rd.....................Ferrari 6th......................WRC 10th.....................WRC 10th
10 Romain Grosjean........GP2 4st.........................GP2 4th/Renault 23rd.........GT1 11th/GP2 14th........GP2 1st/Renault TD

Force India Mercedes
11 Paul di Resta...............DTM 2nd........................DTM 3rd.........................DTM 1st/Force India TD..Force India 13th
12 Nico Hulkenberg..........F3 Euro 1st....................GP2 1st/Williams TD...........Williams 14th................Force India TD

Sauber Ferrari
14 Kamui Kobayashi.........GP2 16th........................GP2 16th/Toyota 18th.........BMW 12th.....................Sauber 12th
15 Sergio Perez Mendoza..GP2 Asia 7th...................GP2 Arden 12th.................GP2 Barwa 2nd..............Williams 16th

STR Ferrari
16 Daniel Ricciardo...........FR 2.0 WEC 1st................British F3 1st................FR3.5 2nd...................FR 3.5 5th/STR TD/HRT 27th
17 Jean-Eric Vergne..........FR 2.0 WEC 4th/Ecup 6th..FR 2.0 WEC 2nd/Ecup 2nd...British F3 1st/FR 3.5 2nd...FR 3.5 2nd/STR TD

Williams Renault
18 Pastor Maldonado.........GP2 Piquet 5th.................GP2 ART 6th......................GP2 Rapax 1st...............Williams 19th
19 TBA

Caterham Renault
20 Heikki Kovalainen.........McLaren 7th.....................McLaren 12th.....................Lotus Racing 20th...........Team Lotus 22nd
21 Jarno Trulli...................Toyota 9th........................Toyota 8th.........................Lotus Racing 21th...........Team Lotus 21nd

HRT
22 Pedro de la Rosa..........McLaren TD.......................McLaren TD......................BMW 17th......................McLaren TD/Sauber 20th
23 TBA

Marussia Cosworth
24 Timo Glock...................Toyota 10th.......................Toyota 10th.......................Virgin 25th.....................Marussia 25th
25 Charles Pic...................FR 3.5 6th.........................FR 3.5 3th.........................GP2 10th........................GP2 4th

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by tderias » 10 Jan 2012, 14:23

It's quite a tough decision for Jaime. I definitely would not like to be in his boots. Should he go for a team like HRT after spending 3 years in a team of a higher tier, or should he risk not finding a seat for 2012, and possibly be forgotten for good?

All I know is that the sudden, last-minute decision to fire both Toro Rosso drivers is dirty, unprofessional move by the junior red bull team, because it basically screwed up both drivers' chances of getting a seat in 2012.

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