2011-12 Silly Season

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phil1993
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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by phil1993 » 02 Jan 2012, 15:44

I think a mixture. There's the Catch-22 in that Vettel is so good that everyone is now expected to be of his standard, which is unrealistic. Some were never going to be champions, such as Ammermuller or Speed - whom Gerhard Berger called the biggest idiotic driver he'd ever come across. Yet others, such as Buemi are competent racers. Alguersuari was put in too young I think and that's cost him.

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by reppo » 02 Jan 2012, 15:47

iceman1 wrote:We reported that yesterday :p

http://www.f1zone.net/news/buemi-to-be- ... 012/11313/
u ar tooo faaast or i ar tooo sloouw :blush:
iceman1 wrote:@F1Zone: According to BBCF1, Rubens Barrichello is back in the frame at Williams, assisted by the departure of Patrick Head.
They need someone to develop the car. Maldonado is too inexperienced.

Mar
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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by Mar » 02 Jan 2012, 15:50

iceman1 wrote:We reported that yesterday :p

http://www.f1zone.net/news/buemi-to-be- ... 012/11313/

@F1Zone: According to BBCF1, Rubens Barrichello is back in the frame at Williams, assisted by the departure of Patrick Head.
AMuS also says today Barrichello has good chances because Sutil would only want a 1-year-deal and Rubens already knows the team.

In the same article they tell Ferrari and Red Bull are thought to have signed an agreement behind the scenes with Bernie 2 months ago with special rights.

And they also think the stories about Buemi as Red Bull's 3rd driver could be true. It should help if Webber retires at the end of 2012: if it happens RB would only have 3 drivers for 4 seats, so it's better to have somebody known around in case he is necessary.

And Petrov should have more chances in Caterham than in Marussia because Glock's contract was renewed for three years last summer, therefore it would be very expensive to cancel it. Plus Alguersuari should not have chances by HRT because he doesn't bring money.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 32650.html

And, also today, there is an article in Blick where Vettel talks about a seat in Catherham as one of those still free for next season. In other words, not even the drivers think Trulli will be there when the season begins.

I think I forgot nothing :)

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by phil1993 » 02 Jan 2012, 15:54

Quick lowdown on the Williams situation:

Sutil:
Pros
+ Quick
+ Seems to have stopped crashing so much
+ Blend of experience & youth (he's 28 with nearly 100 starts)
+ Has seen a team grow from the back (Midland 2006) to the midfield (Force India 2011)
Cons
- Said to not be great on the technical side
- Money: nationality will hold him back as German sponsors will take a greater interest in Vettel, Mercedes & Hulkenberg
- Wouldn't want to commit long term to a struggling team, with top seats available next year

Barrichello
Pros
+ Experience
+ Knowledge of the team and knowledge of him from the team
+ Still quick
Cons
- A bit erratic
- Age: 40; 2011 suggested he slowed a lot...
- Money, although that isn't necessarily a negative

Senna
Pros
+ Marketable - the Senna name
+ Money - rumours are $27m of sponsorship
+ Raw speed is there
Cons
- Inexperienced for his age
- Inconsistent
- Doesn't have the 'wow' factor.

It's tricky; all 3 have pros & cons. Question is which one can haul Williams back to the front of the midfield?

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by Adam » 02 Jan 2012, 16:11

iceman1 wrote:We reported that yesterday :p

http://www.f1zone.net/news/buemi-to-be- ... 012/11313/
.
I don't understand RBR. Bias aside I don't know why they decided to keep Buemi so the guy still has presence in F1 while kicking out Jaime and forgetting about him taking into account who performed better and got more points for the team... :(

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by reppo » 02 Jan 2012, 16:25

Mar wrote:And they also think the stories about Buemi as Red Bull's 3rd driver could be true. It should help if Webber retires at the end of 2012: if it happens RB would only have 3 drivers for 4 seats, so it's better to have somebody known around in case he is necessary.
They are looking a replacement for Webber and hoping to find next Vettel. STR is their testbed for benchmarking young drivers. Which remains me of this:
Old Chris' Almanack for 2012
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... -2012.html
There is also something about STR :lol:

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by reppo » 02 Jan 2012, 17:03

If money matters to Williams then Senna has the edge. There are rumors that they are losing AT&T:

AT&T drops title sponsorship of Williams
http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/ ... +1+News%29
If they don't get QNB then they could be in trouble :(

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by frubbs » 02 Jan 2012, 17:12

They shouldn´t let Hulk go, in first place.
The 2011 season proved that Maldonado is not able to solve problems, and Barrichello was also disappointing.
Senna is really instable.
The best option would be Kimi, but they let him escape, so, i think the best option avaliable is Sutil.

I predict dark times for Frank and his crew...
Image 322 gps | 14 pp | 11 1st

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by phil1993 » 02 Jan 2012, 18:27

Probably inconsequential, but AT&T don't appear to be Williams's title sponsors any more. The most likely scenario is because they're unhappy with the fact PDVSA are such a large part of the team due to strained relations between the USA & Venezuela. However, it would pave the way for Embratel sponsorship, wouldn't it...

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by F1Fan88 » 03 Jan 2012, 12:37

I wonder if AT&T will leave F1 or find another team to work with?

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by cformula1 » 03 Jan 2012, 13:54

Williams is a team in dire straits. They need talent, but also need money, so Senna would be their best, and the likely, option for them.
Image

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by frubbs » 03 Jan 2012, 19:19

Patrick Head's departure may ease Barrichello's path to a return.
Head is forthright character and I'm told he had grown tired of the Brazilian's complaints about the team's difficulties.
With the 65-year-old no longer involved, that on the face of it is one less barrier to Barrichello being in the car again.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson ... .html#more

seens like the fight is hotter between the brazilians...
Image 322 gps | 14 pp | 11 1st

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by TwistedArmco » 03 Jan 2012, 21:12

cformula1 wrote:Williams is a team in dire straits. They need talent, but also need money, so Senna would be their best, and the likely, option for them.
Not dire straits, just firmly in the midfield.

donald29 wrote:Yeah when I wrote that article I looked at that list. I wonder, did Red Bull just back a load of drivers who were never going to make it or have some of those driver's careers actually been harmed by Red Bull?
Well if the general idea is to get your drivers into F1, surely they haven't done that badly? They've not only done that, but have simultaneously found a prodigous talent, secured his signature and then given him the car to win with. I mean, what have Ferrari's 'academy' drivers been doing? The biggest name I can think of is Bianchi (I guess they kind of did it with Massa too). And where are McLaren's recent 'youth' drivers? Hamilton is most notable, and comparable to Vettel, but the next nearest McLaren youth driver is Gary Paffett, unless I'm missing someone. So if Red Bull drivers are in Formula One, and have been competent in Formula One for long enough to prove they're no mugs (like Buemi and Alguersuari, like Ricciardo may do) surely that's more successful in a shorter period of time than other development programs?

This is all with my mind and no references, because I'm lazy, so if I've missed a driver that completely kills my argument, feel free to mock.
No, I'm not calmer. Just more jaded.

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by phil1993 » 03 Jan 2012, 21:17

It's a bit unfair on Ferrari, as they only started their driver academy mid-2010 if I recall. Red Bull's has been going since 2000?

With Williams, they've been on a slippery slope since they elected not to sell to BMW. 2011 was their low point, and you'd hope that a tech reshuffle and the Renault power will haul them back to a proper midfield fight. In 2011, they couldn't fight with the midfield, they scraped a few points together.

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Re: 2011-12 Silly Season

Post by donald29 » 04 Jan 2012, 11:43

They've back a load of drivers who never made it to F1 as well though.

I think if you're looking for a successful team at bringing young drivers BMW did pretty well. They backed Vettel and brought him and Kubica into F1. Of course they made other, much bigger mistakes...

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