Ferrari escape further punishment - WMSC decision

This forum gives you a chance to be able to communicate with your fellow F1 fans.
Post Reply
momo
F1 Rookie
F1 Rookie
Posts: 804
Joined: 19 Apr 2010, 06:54
Location: Italy

Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)

Post by momo » 06 Sep 2010, 22:39

Ferrari drivers Felipe Massa and Fernando Alonso to give team orders hearing a miss

Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa will not attend Wednesday's World Motor Sport Council hearing in Paris into Ferrari's use of banned 'team orders' at the German Grand Prix.

Published: 8:50PM BST 06 Sep 2010

Ferrari drivers Felipe Massa and Fernando Alonso to give team orders hearing a miss
Not appearing: Ferrari drivers Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa will not be attending the WMSC hearing on Wednesday Photo: GETTY IMAGES

There was speculation over the weekend that the pair had been summoned to appear in person but the Italian team said on Monday that their drivers would be made available by conference call should they be required. Team principal Stefano Domenicali will attend with Ferrari lawyers.

It would be strange indeed were the drivers not asked for their thoughts since their understanding of what occurred in Germany will be crucial to determining whether Ferrari lose all of, some of, or none of the points they accrued in that race.

The Scuderia were fined $100,000 by stewards on the spot after they were deemed guilty of using coded instructions to order Massa aside and allow Alonso through to win the race, while the matter was also referred to the WMSC for further consideration.

It is difficult to enforce the ban on team orders since there are so many ways to disguise its use. Ferrari will argue on Wednesday that no explicit order was given.

They will also highlight the fact that other alleged coded messages – for instance McLaren's instruction to both their drivers to "conserve fuel" in Turkey earlier this summer – went unpunished.

As Ferrari prepare for the hearing, there is continuing confusion over Massa's start at the last race in Belgium.

The Brazilian overshot his grid slot by a significant margin but escaped a drive-through penalty as the incident was not picked up by race control.

The FIA, F1's governing body, has promised to investigate how it missed an incident that BBC commentators remarked on in their live coverage, and which a number of fans posted on YouTube.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motors ... -miss.html

User avatar
Ferrariman60
F1 Routinier
F1 Routinier
Posts: 4542
Joined: 01 Jan 2009, 20:55
Contact:

Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)

Post by Ferrariman60 » 07 Sep 2010, 21:33

I guess we'll soon find out whether or not FIA still stands for Ferrari International Assistance...
Requiescat in pace, Jules Bianchi


Ferrariman60

User avatar
sdutt
F1 Routinier
F1 Routinier
Posts: 5234
Joined: 25 Aug 2009, 19:15
Location: India
Contact:

Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)

Post by sdutt » 08 Sep 2010, 03:19

Ferrariman60 wrote:I guess we'll soon find out whether or not FIA still stands for Ferrari International Assistance...



i agree. most probably they might just get a fine IMO
Image
Image

User avatar
sleenster
F1 Routinier
F1 Routinier
Posts: 5553
Joined: 11 Apr 2010, 18:01

Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)

Post by sleenster » 08 Sep 2010, 06:38

:confused:

Hill: Ferrari likely to get away
Wednesday 8th September 2010

Damon Hill believes Ferrari and Fernando Alonso are unlikely to be punished any further by the World Motor Sport Council for using team orders as the rule is "fundamentally flawed".

The Scuderia's hearing will take place in Paris on Wednesday following the Spaniard's controversial German Grand Prix victory at the end of July. The team have already been fined $100,000 by the stewards after they used a coded message to tell Felipe Massa to allow Alonso through for the win.

The WMSC has the option of either dishing out another fine, strip Alonso and/or Ferrari of the points they won in Hockenheim or decide not to impose any further punishment. Should Alonso lose the points then it will all but end his hopes of winning the 2010 World Championship.

Former World Champion Hill, though, feels Ferrari are likely to "get off".

"Teams say they are not implementing team orders but we all suspect that what they are doing is indicating to the driver how they would like them to perform, which can't be construed as an order," he told The Telegraph.

"It is an issue which has been creeping up for some time and has not been addressed and I think Ferrari might get off because the rules aren't clear.

"This is where the sport doesn't do itself any favours. It needs a media circus to make the necessary changes. I mean, this is happening four days before the Italian Grand Prix."

Should the WMSC decide to punish Ferrari, Hill warns them against coming down too hard by stripping the team of their points.

"Flexing their muscles because they can is not necessarily wise," he added. "I don't think a punishment that big would fit this particular crime."

http://www.planet-f1.com/news/3213/6364491/Hill-Ferrari-likely-to-get-away

Kuboid
car driver
car driver
Posts: 4
Joined: 07 Sep 2010, 21:12
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)

Post by Kuboid » 08 Sep 2010, 10:44

The biggest penalty I can see Ferrari receiving is disqualification from the Constructors' Championship and Fernando Alonso being disqualified from the result of the German Grand Prix. Let's not forget, the biggest victim of this incident was Felipe Massa.

Immediately after the race, the main reaction seemed to be in the vain of 'How could they do this to Felipe?!?!' Since then people seem to be calling for harsher and harsher punishments for Ferrari. Let's not forget that a lot of these punishments will hurt the victim, Massa, just as much as the beneficiaries, Alonso and Ferrari.

That said, the stewards could have quite easily resolved this issue after the race. A 5-second penalty for Alonso would have switched the order of the Ferraris. A 25-second penalty would have put him behind Sebastian Vettel too. Or of course he could have been disqualified. These options were all available and I am surprised none were used.

Instead, we go into today with a situation no-one will be satisfied with. If Ferrari are disqualified from either championship or banned or whatever then the FIA, and ex-boss Jean Todt, will be seen as coming down on them. If they aren't penalised at all, it will be back to the old Ferrari International Assistance jibes again.

This situation could have quite easily been resolved a long time ago.
Simple and effective

User avatar
Ferrariman60
F1 Routinier
F1 Routinier
Posts: 4542
Joined: 01 Jan 2009, 20:55
Contact:

Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)

Post by Ferrariman60 » 08 Sep 2010, 11:07

Kuboid wrote:The biggest penalty I can see Ferrari receiving is disqualification from the Constructors' Championship and Fernando Alonso being disqualified from the result of the German Grand Prix. Let's not forget, the biggest victim of this incident was Felipe Massa.

Immediately after the race, the main reaction seemed to be in the vain of 'How could they do this to Felipe?!?!' Since then people seem to be calling for harsher and harsher punishments for Ferrari. Let's not forget that a lot of these punishments will hurt the victim, Massa, just as much as the beneficiaries, Alonso and Ferrari.

That said, the stewards could have quite easily resolved this issue after the race. A 5-second penalty for Alonso would have switched the order of the Ferraris. A 25-second penalty would have put him behind Sebastian Vettel too. Or of course he could have been disqualified. These options were all available and I am surprised none were used.

Instead, we go into today with a situation no-one will be satisfied with. If Ferrari are disqualified from either championship or banned or whatever then the FIA, and ex-boss Jean Todt, will be seen as coming down on them. If they aren't penalised at all, it will be back to the old Ferrari International Assistance jibes again.

This situation could have quite easily been resolved a long time ago.


I think you're 100% correct. They can't ban them from F1 because 1, Ferrari is the biggest name in the sport and the source of much of the TV audience. 2, Not only would Alonso and Ferrari pay for the violation, but Massa would also be unfairly implicated through the loss of his job.
I think we're more likely to see their constructor points stripped from Germany, but nothing more. They've already been fined $100,000, the maximum penalty that can be imposed during a race weekend, and the bad press may have already been harmful enough to the team. They won't disqualify them from the WCC however. Ferrari is too big a player to upset that drastically. If they decided to quit F1 for example, I think the sport may actually not survive without the revenue generation of Ferrari.
Requiescat in pace, Jules Bianchi


Ferrariman60

User avatar
saif
F1 Rookie
F1 Rookie
Posts: 971
Joined: 04 May 2010, 09:36
Location: Temporary Dunya
Contact:

Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)

Post by saif » 08 Sep 2010, 11:35

Tweet from @alanbaldwinf1

Should be an FIA statement on council's 'other business' around 1400ish and then Ferrari hearing due to start around 1500 local.


Ferrari team orders hearing, Paris (Photos): http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-photos/6020//


More updates @alanbaldwinf1
The umbrellas are out and the TV folk are now looking wet as well as fed up. A few FIA people wandering back from lunch.
Ferrari's lawyers have just entered the building with team spokesman luca colajanni. Still raining.
Whats the purpose of life? Is Life Just A Game? Find out the answers: http://www.OneReason.org/

http://www.twitter.com/saifsultan

User avatar
Lynx'niK
GP2 Driver
GP2 Driver
Posts: 299
Joined: 15 Apr 2010, 20:29

Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)

Post by Lynx'niK » 08 Sep 2010, 13:01

My warm up.

8.September- RED CARPET EVENT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee90eyhyVpA

Thanks Nicole for posting the 'Tifosi' comments :thumbsup:
They inspired me and my fiendishness Image :blush:
GOODBYE KIMI
GOODBYE RÄIKKÖNEN

http://www.youtube.com/user/niQlettsche

User avatar
Wolfie
F1 Routinier
F1 Routinier
Posts: 5049
Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 09:07
Location: Finland

Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)

Post by Wolfie » 08 Sep 2010, 13:16

Lynx'niK wrote:My warm up.

8.September- RED CARPET EVENT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee90eyhyVpA

Thanks Nicole for posting the 'Tifosi' comments :thumbsup:
They inspired me and my fiendishness Image :blush:


Priceless Lynx :hug:

Thank you so much and good luck to Ferrari :p

Saif, please keep us posted, okay?
To be changed soon - rko281, where are you??? LOL

User avatar
saif
F1 Rookie
F1 Rookie
Posts: 971
Joined: 04 May 2010, 09:36
Location: Temporary Dunya
Contact:

Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)

Post by saif » 08 Sep 2010, 14:42

@alanbaldwinf1 wrote:The Italians are getting restless but still no news. Far fewer people here than previous FIA hearings. Fleet Street's finest organising dict will come out. Sweep on when verdict will come out. Consensus seems to be not soon.
Whats the purpose of life? Is Life Just A Game? Find out the answers: http://www.OneReason.org/

http://www.twitter.com/saifsultan

User avatar
phil1993
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25503
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 17:32
Contact:

Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)

Post by phil1993 » 08 Sep 2010, 15:34

Decision expected in around 90 minutes

User avatar
iceman1
F1 Legend
F1 Legend
Posts: 23702
Joined: 16 Sep 2006, 15:50
Location: North Pole
Contact:

Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)

Post by iceman1 » 08 Sep 2010, 15:35

@5LiveF1: We expect the WMSC decision before 1800 UK time apparently... suitably vague!

User avatar
saif
F1 Rookie
F1 Rookie
Posts: 971
Joined: 04 May 2010, 09:36
Location: Temporary Dunya
Contact:

Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)

Post by saif » 08 Sep 2010, 16:07

@F1Photographer wrote:Ferrari have escaped further punishment by the FIA for the team orders 'non-story' at Hockenheim this year.


dont know if its authentic source or not
Whats the purpose of life? Is Life Just A Game? Find out the answers: http://www.OneReason.org/

http://www.twitter.com/saifsultan

User avatar
saif
F1 Rookie
F1 Rookie
Posts: 971
Joined: 04 May 2010, 09:36
Location: Temporary Dunya
Contact:

Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)

Post by saif » 08 Sep 2010, 16:11

CONFIRMED
@alanbaldwinf1 wrote:President of Italy's CSAI motorsport fed says FIA decided no further sanction for Ferrari. Upheld fine and to review rules.

:<>: :<>: :<>:
Whats the purpose of life? Is Life Just A Game? Find out the answers: http://www.OneReason.org/

http://www.twitter.com/saifsultan

Baboy
car driver
car driver
Posts: 24
Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 21:06

Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)

Post by Baboy » 08 Sep 2010, 16:13

McLaren fans rage in 3... 2... 1...

Post Reply