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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 09:01  
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Not fair at all, Alonso was whinging over the radio. If he wants to win he should have let his driving and not his mouth do the talking. Although the way Ferrari gave in to Alonso's demands was nothing short of disgraceful, particularly at this relatively early stage of the season, and when both drivers still have a reasonable shot at the WDC.
Strip them of WCC points for this round, on top of $100,000 it'd be the most appropriate punishment.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 09:25  
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Massa doesn't have a reasonable shot at the title, Alonso's the only one with a chance. And when your behind your teammate and your faster, your going to start whingeing over the radio, especially in the heat of battle. They did what most teams would have done, though they were stupid enough to make it obvious.
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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 09:32  
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I agree. Like I said, I think teamorders are part of the sport. Why would Ferrari let Massa win in Brazil in 2007? He gave the postion to Raikkonen. But on the other hand, it's not fair for the driver who has to give up the position. But having said that, drivers are employees of the team. And an employee has to do what the boss tells him to do.
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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 09:36  
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R.? wrote:
But having said that, drivers are employees of the team. And an employee has to do what the boss tells him to do.

Not if it's against the rules, then they don't have to do that.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 09:48  
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They do Joost...if Massa refuses he probably gets fired, or at the very least he gets demonised inside Ferrari. Massa deserves some of the blame for being so supid in letting him through - if he slowed down gradually or ran wide at a corner to let Alonso through there would be much less of the fuss.
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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 09:50  
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swca92 wrote:
They do Joost...if Massa refuses he probably gets fired, or at the very least he gets demonised inside Ferrari. Massa deserves some of the blame for being so supid in letting him through - if he slowed down gradually or ran wide at a corner to let Alonso through there would be much less of the fuss.

They do not! That's not only against the rules, but it's also against the law :p Seriously

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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 10:42  
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^2 years ago in the same race Kovalainen let Hamilton pass him for the championship!!! :O

http://dailymotion.virgilio.it/video/x6 ... video_auto :zz:

And I remember FIA doing nothing about it ... Wasn't it then against the law? :p

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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 11:20  
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That was Kovalainens own choice. Like it was Massa's choice to let pass Kimi in Brazil 07. Remember FIA have every teamradio, so they would've heard teamorders.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 11:28  
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JoostLamers wrote:
That was Kovalainens own choice. Like it was Massa's choice to let pass Kimi in Brazil 07. Remember FIA have every teamradio, so they would've heard teamorders.


Teams use coded message...
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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 12:07  
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JoostLamers wrote:
That was Kovalainens own choice. Like it was Massa's choice to let pass Kimi in Brazil 07. Remember FIA have every teamradio, so they would've heard teamorders.

Well, in that case can you prove it was an explicit team order in Germany 2010? No.
Massa wasn't told "let Alonso pass", he was told "Alonso is faster than you", so technically it was Massa's own choice to let Alonso by.

The same goes with Alonso and Fisichela in Turkey 05. Or with Raikkonen and Massa in China 08. And the list goes on and on and on ... :O

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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 13:27  
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Powerslave wrote:
^2 years ago in the same race Kovalainen let Hamilton pass him for the championship!!! :O

http://dailymotion.virgilio.it/video/x6 ... video_auto :zz:

And I remember FIA doing nothing about it ... Wasn't it then against the law? :p


you are trying to compare apples and oranges, massa was leading a race and was going to win it, the hamilton and kovi race they were 5 places apart. if kovi was fast enough and let him pass he would have finished behind him? not a further 4 places down the pack.

it seems you agree that there were/are team orders but are you trying to say massa wasnt pressured into pulling over for alonso?
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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 17:12  
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Hockenheim 2008 – and why it does not matter
JoeSaward wrote:

The pro-Alonso troops have been firing in salvoes all day long, shrieking “Hockenheim 2008″ as some kind of justification for the argument that the world is against Fernando and it’s not fair because McLaren gets away with everything. In the end I decided to explain why it is not the same thing as a reply to the comments. Here is the answer I gave…

“The reason I have not discussed Hockenheim in 2008 before this point is that it is not relevant at all in the current argument. There is simply no comparison because of differing fuel loads, differing tyre conditions and specific events which had skewed the result. Perhaps you do not remember it well because I find it extraordinary that you do not understand the difference. If two team-mates are on different strategies there will inevitably be occasions when one will get in the way of the other. It is accepted by all concerned that in such circumstances the slower driver will not block the man behind.

“Hamilton took the lead and quickly built a lead of 11 seconds. He regained the lead after the first round of stops and had opened up a similar margin when Timo Glock crashed into the pit wall, causing a Safety Car. McLaren made the wrong decision to leave him out, while everyone else made their stops and so Hamilton lost all the time that he had gained and found himself at a disadvantage as he was unlikely to be able to make up 23 secs before his next stop. He pushed as hard as he could but failed to build the gap necessary. He re-emerged in fifth place, just behind Kovalainen, who had been on the same tyres for 12 laps and was, in any case, much slower. Heikki waved him through. Heidfeld went into the pits while Lewis caught and passed both Massa and Piquet to win.

“His fastest lap was 0.456s faster than Kovalainen’s best lap. It is entirely different to having two drivers on the same strategy, running at the same pace and the leader being told to move over for the man behind. No-one complained. The FIA took no action. The reason that Ferrari ran into trouble in Germany was because there was no need to put Alonso ahead of Massa, beyond the very tenuous argument that he has more points. There were still eight races to go in the World Championship and thus the move looked as though the team was favouring Alonso when there was no reason to do so. That simply looked bad for the sport – and that is what Ferrari will be judged on.

“I think you need to pull away from the nationalistic slant that you seem to have. Alonso is treated the same as the other drivers. The serious British media in F1 do not have anything against him. We appreciate that he is an exciting driver. It would be better if he drove more and waved his hands about less and spent less time on the radio complaining about this and that. The penalty at the British GP was stupid, both on his part and on the part of the team. He was unlucky in Valencia. That is it. Don’t make it into something that is not there.”
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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 18:20  
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just plain & simple:

Hockenheim 2008: winner - hamilton; deserving winner

Hockenheim 2010: winner - massa,...err alonso; (? it's up to you to judge)

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 18:47  
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Ferrari put everything on Alonso`s card, but they also have a sponsor named Santander who brought 20 mil dollars in Ferrari when Alonso came in Ferrari so everything is clear.This is expensive sport . He is first driver , he had to win if Ferrari want to have any chance for competition in drivers championship. Massa had his chance in 2008 and I think if it was oposite between Massa and Alonso in point difference situation would be the same , Massa would be winner.
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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 19:06  
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megasyxx wrote:
just plain & simple:

Hockenheim 2008: winner - hamilton; deserving winner

Hockenheim 2010: winner - massa,...err alonso; (? it's up to you to judge)

:)

'deserving' :huh: ...Reserved sounds more appropriate :O

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