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 Post subject: Ferrari escape further punishment - WMSC decision
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2010, 16:56  
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Team Orders at the German Grand Prix created a lot of Controversy around the World...

What's your Opinon ?

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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2010, 19:00  
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Not fair - but as a team result and championship orientation is concerned i would agree with them partially.

Ferrai acted today as a bureaucracy. They wanted to seal the 1-2 with a victory for Alonso. I understand it was done to keep the title fight. May be if i was a team owner, i would want the same thing. But they should occupy a binary position with respect to team order. Either clearly tell Massa - Move out of Alonso's way or tell Massa to pick up pace and compete with Alonso. They shouldn't hide behind the curtain and pretend as if it was a driver decision. The season is only halfway through and everyone has a an equal chance at the title. Moreover Massa cannot be ruled out of contention for WDC mathematically, so Ferrari should have left him race ...
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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2010, 19:00  
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I dont know about that, but it was blatant disregard of the team orders ban :lol:
Who were they kidding, all could clearly make out that both ferraris were on equal pace

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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2010, 23:14  
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It's dissapointing for Massa. It looked like he got the race in his bag. Alonso attacked him and Massa managed to keep him behind. So at that point Ferrari could have radioed to Alonso to maintain position. Which is a teamorder as well. They chose to gamble on Alonso and to give Massa the teamorder. I don't know what the contract says, but Massa and Alonso are just employees. If Massa gets told by his boss to let Alonso pass, it's clear. If Alonso gets the message to take the lead, he has to do it. I understand why teamorders are ilegal, but in the end F1 is a teamsport.

But it's silly how Ferrari is trying to get everybody to believe there were no teamorders. Smedley said Massa slowed because he made a mistake. Don't be stupid. Massa clearly backed off the throttle. Everybody saw it, everybody knows it. So why denie it? It's the same as trying to convince the world that red is green.
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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 00:44  
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My vote

1 - Not Fair, Massa and Alonso should fight for Position

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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 06:06  
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The team orders at Hockenheim were ridiculous. Fernando is a cry baby.When he was at Renault and Fisi was ahead of him he used to cry.Same what he did after the 2006 US GP.Or Maybe thats the reason Ferrari are recruiting Brazilain Drivers. Earlier it was Rubens & now Massa.What a shame. I was a hardcore Ferrari Fan too but ever since Kimi was pushed out just becuase of sponsorship matters I am really pissed.Right now RBR might look stupid from outside that their drivers are figting each other & taking each other out but at the end of the day they are fair to both of them.


I hope that the WMSC takes some stringebt actions against Ferrari.So they can stop this habit of team orders once and for all.
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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 14:34  
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Hi everybody,
my F1 background comes to from the 70's and there's still something romantic about my approach to the sport. So I didn't like the decision that led to the Alonso's pass over Massa, but definitely I can't disagree.

The reason is that, unfortunately, our sport has changed a lot since the 70's, when both winning and perform well were considered successful results to be very proud of. Today it's different: business is the core of everything in F1 and winning races and the championship the only acceptable goal to draw a line on the newspapers and self-sustain a team in this game; nowadays the second best is generally considered the biggest of losers and everyone acts on a "win-or-die" approach and any romanticism for the sport is long gone. I'm still interested and I carefully follow F1 but it doesn't deserve the same passion and love I had for it in the past, before this radical changes to the sport happened.

So, from a romantic point of view, my heart and soul are with Felipe and I loved to see him earn a well deserved win (if able to keep Fernando behind until the end, as it seems) but, being realistic, my brain and reason tell that Alonso is Ferrari's best chance to keep residual championship hopes alive. So Ferrari's choice was right, but I think they still have to learn a lot from their now disgusted opponents about how to do it in a more disguised and politically correct way. :cool:

You can discuss a lot about team orders, but I think it's pointless; team orders never left motor sport since its very beginning, they will always be there no matters the rules. Even the generally used "keep positions and don't fight each other after the last pitstop" is a team order.
Team principals have always tried to stop their drivers fighting each other or make one of them step aside to favour the more supported team mate in many ways, before and during the race: you can do by providing them some slightly different technical stuff (RBR-Silverstone 2010), suggesting one driver a different car setting or driving techniques (RBR & McLaren-Turkey 2010), messing up with his strategies or pit stops (Brawn GP-Spain 2009), or simply by asking them by board or radio (Ferrari-Imola 1982, Williams-Argentina 1981, Renault-France 1982, McLaren-Jerez 1997, McLaren-Australia 1998, Ferrari-Austria 2002, Jordan-Belgium 1998, McLaren-Germany 2008, and other countless examples, with different and sometimes unpredictable results...).

I hope that the unpleasant end of the German GP and the new rule about the public broadcasting of all team radios will led soon to cancel the team orders ban from the rulebook, to have a more open faced competition.

:wave:
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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 14:35  
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How about not giving them any championship points? :zz:
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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 14:41  
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not fair, but has already happened (yet again!)...... so, nothing we can do about it tbh :(

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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 16:03  
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The blatant hypocrisy has overwhelmed the F1 media world of late. A real shame.

P.S. Continuing the work of Lomo (with whom I agree 100%) I'll add the reasoning behind my previous statemenet (supported by a fact) ...:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2006/10/13/toyota-slate-trulli-for-not-breaking-rules/
... yet FIA did nothing! But, as they say in France: c'est la vie. :O

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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 16:19  
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i would have to say not fair, but maybe that is because I support Massa and I wanted him to win.
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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 16:27  
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Lomo :thumbsup:
Lomo wrote:
but I think they still have to learn a lot from their now disgusted opponents about how to do it in a more disguised and politically correct way.

...yeah thats it. (still wouldn't approve it though)

Rob to Massa: "Conserve fuel" :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 16:50  
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shailf1 wrote:
i would have to say not fair, but maybe that is because I support Massa and I wanted him to win.


massa did win.....they took it away from the guy. alonso would have never passed him and would have whined and whined on the radio.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 18:38  
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I agree. Massa won the race, Alonso got the 25 points. But like I said before, I understand why teamorders are not allowed, but I think it's part of the sport. It's a teamsport. Only the way it happends difference. Massa led the Brazilian GP in 2007, but when Raikkonen made his stop, he suddenly dropped a second per lap. Raikkonen took the lead and won the championship. It was always Ferrari's intention to let Raikkonen win. But they did it in a senseble way. They didn't tell Massa to slow down, but they must have told him that Raikkonen was in. The effect is the same as what happend last Sunday. They arranged a switch. But nobody took offense. Still they switched the drivers at the front. So teamorders are part of the sport, I think. But Ferrari is overstretching it in the way they do it.
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 Post subject: Re: Massa let pass Alonso (Do you Agree ?)
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 19:54  
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1 - Not Fair, Massa and Alonso should fight for Position massa was in front on merit alonso finished first because it was a gift from massa, what would of happened if massa would of said no?
i belive alonso is ferarri best driver but if massa leads him an any upcomming GP ferarri will be linched
team orders right or wrong? there was no need for them at this GP, some people are calling this hypocrisy but i would rather call it honesty and as far as i can see ferarri are liars.
all publicity for this simply due to the fact this should have been massa's win
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