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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2011, 19:44  
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phil1993 wrote:
swca92 wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
If Ferrari are close to Red Bull, Alonso will probably be the best. Whatever you think about him, there's no doubt he can make a huge difference. If the cars are equal, Alonso > Vettel.

In terms of sheer speed, I'd probably rank Vettel ahead of Alonso. However, in terms of consistency and racecraft, Alonso is better and over a season in the same car would probably beat Vettel.


I guess I'd agree with that. Whilst hardly short of poles, Alonso has never been the best qualifier, but definitely the best racer.


Me too. But, I think he has always been about the race. In every interview,its 'nice to have pole but not important as it is tomorrow that counts'. Him in race trim, is the fastest, hence actually having equal fastest laps to lewis last year but winning double the races.

Thats where Vettel to me fails. Sure, fast in quali, but doesnt have the race pace from anywhere but pole. I still dont see vettel as a World Champion Racer. He made 2 mistakes last year which, are unforgiveable to be frank, as even Piquet never crashed into someone. He only made sure he hit the barriers for his teammate, not hitting his actual team mate! Pesky Sebastien!
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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2011, 20:40  
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I predict this year will suck for a Hamilton fan like me :<>:

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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2011, 20:42  
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JoostLamers wrote:
I predict this year will suck for a Hamilton fan like me :<>:


Yup. Everyone that has been to the testing says the McLaren is poor. Ferrari, Red Bull, Renault and maybe STR & Williams have a better car.

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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2011, 20:46  
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But I think Vettel learns from his mistakes now. Just look at the last 6 or 7 races where he drove like a World Champion and didn't make any mistakes. And with the first Championship in his pocket he has less pressure than the last two years, so he can drive more relaxed. That should help him

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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2011, 20:47  
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Eric_Cartman wrote:
But I think Vettel learns from his mistakes now. Just look at the last 6 or 7 races where he drove like a World Champion and didn't make any mistakes. And with the first Championship in his pocket he has less pressure than the last two years, so he can drive more relaxed. That should help him

You know what they say: Getting to the top is easy; but staying there is a whole lot more difficult...

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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2011, 20:50  
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So long as Red Bull keep churning out good cars, Vettel will be at the top. No doubt about that. It might be interesting if he has a car which is 3rd or 4th best, just to see what he's like.

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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2011, 20:51  
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i agree, Vettel did show some fantastic driving towards end of season and could have won comfortable without thoise few mech gremlins.. but i still feel he has a lot to learn before he can be called the best

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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2011, 23:29  
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What do STR3 and 2008 Italian GP tell you about what Vettel can do without The Fastest car underneath him?

It's funny and ironic to see people, who defend Lewis Hamilton when people rushed into him after being the youngest ever champion whether he can still deliver or not when he hasn't got the fast car underneath him, now start to query whether Vettel have what it takes now that he's The youngest champion. I'm not necessarily referring to Phil or Joostlamers. It's just funny world that makes me always surprised.

Yeah, I think we all know what they say: What goes around comes around

:wave:

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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2011, 06:48  
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To be fair, the STR3 was among the very best in the wet.

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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2011, 11:51  
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JoostLamers wrote:
I predict this year will suck for a Hamilton fan like me :<>:


Good!Us Alonso fans have had 2 years of it =[

Nah seriously, he will win a race. Vettel will crash into webber and Alonso will overtake heidfield by cutting a corner :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2011, 11:54  
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Eric_Cartman wrote:
But I think Vettel learns from his mistakes now. Just look at the last 6 or 7 races where he drove like a World Champion and didn't make any mistakes. And with the first Championship in his pocket he has less pressure than the last two years, so he can drive more relaxed. That should help him


Id disagree. That last 7 races he took button out, claimed the team was messing him around in monza, told to give webber room should they be side by side.... he hasnt learned anything. I mean, he wouldnt dare try overtaking Alonso in singapore, he was happy to sit behind. Then again. Hamilton was opposite and that was a hatchet job.
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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2011, 11:54  
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Ali wrote:
What do STR3 and 2008 Italian GP tell you about what Vettel can do without The Fastest car underneath him?

It's funny and ironic to see people, who defend Lewis Hamilton when people rushed into him after being the youngest ever champion whether he can still deliver or not when he hasn't got the fast car underneath him, now start to query whether Vettel have what it takes now that he's The youngest champion. I'm not necessarily referring to Phil or Joostlamers. It's just funny world that makes me always surprised.

Yeah, I think we all know what they say: What goes around comes around

:wave:


To be honest, the wet was the only time STR performaed, infact both redbulls performed best in rain. Dont forget, STR was redbull in a different livery. Vettel was easily better than Bourdais, Coulthard and even webber back then. He once again led from pole, but fails from anywhere else :n
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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2011, 12:39  
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Yip, and the STR3 had the Ferrari engine which in 2008 was more powerful than the Renualts in Redbull.
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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2011, 12:45  
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Ali wrote:
What do STR3 and 2008 Italian GP tell you about what Vettel can do without The Fastest car underneath him?

It's funny and ironic to see people, who defend Lewis Hamilton when people rushed into him after being the youngest ever champion whether he can still deliver or not when he hasn't got the fast car underneath him, now start to query whether Vettel have what it takes now that he's The youngest champion. I'm not necessarily referring to Phil or Joostlamers. It's just funny world that makes me always surprised.

Yeah, I think we all know what they say: What goes around comes around

:wave:


Hamilton had the second worst (only better than FI) in some races in 2009 :O

The STR3 was great in the wet & they were set up for the right conditions. Yes, Vettel's drive was stunning but it isn't the amazing feat many claim it to be. Hell, even Bourdais qualified 4th that weekend and he spent more of his F1 life crying than driving.

---

Someone else who went to Barcelona:

Quote:
Ferrari are superb under breaking. The car looks like it handles well, doesn't seem to have too many problems with the tyres compared to a lot of other teams.
The Red Bull can get on the throttle quicker than the other teams, in that sense it is in a league of its own. However, after a while it gets a bit twitchier as the tyres wear down.
The Merc is awful, it looks slow and very dificult to handle. It seems to suit Schumacher more than Rosberg.
Mclaren, I don't know what to make of it. It definately looked a lot better in Hamilton's hands than Button's. With Button driving, it was all over the place. It was still nervous and twitchy in Hamilton's hands. It doesn't look slow, but it that quick either.
Lotus Renault, initially I thought the car looked slow, but it looked like it was consistantly heavily fuelled. However, it didn't appear to be too bad on the tyres. It looked consistant and there were a couple of times it didn't look as heavily fuelled and it did look a lot quicker.
Focee India was sometimes looking good and then sometimes looking twitchy. I cant make up my mind with that car.
STR, same as Force India.
Williams, fast car but a little bit nervous at times, I think it is in the top 4.
Team Lotus, looks like it has gained some downforce from last year, however how much of a step forward it has taken is an unknown.
Virgin is again the same as Team Lotus.
HRT, enough said. It looked awful.

I did get up close and personal with some used Pirelli tyres (they weren't Virgins tyres), and I have no idea how many laps had been done on them but they were grained and cracked.

I am no expert, but that was my observations. I could be wrong but Ferrari and Red Bull look to be out in front and the others have quite a bit of a margin to find to catch them up. I am not looking at this from a Ferrari fan perspective, but that is what it looked like from the track. And these observations looked pretty much similar whether the cars were on high fuel loads or not because quite often it was obvious whether they were on a high fuel load or not as the way the cars handled were slightly different and a trend emerged. It is hard to explain.

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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Formula 1 Season - Official Discussion Thread
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2011, 15:30  
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Ali wrote:
What do STR3 and 2008 Italian GP tell you about what Vettel can do without The Fastest car underneath him?

It's funny and ironic to see people, who defend Lewis Hamilton when people rushed into him after being the youngest ever champion whether he can still deliver or not when he hasn't got the fast car underneath him, now start to query whether Vettel have what it takes now that he's The youngest champion. I'm not necessarily referring to Phil or Joostlamers. It's just funny world that makes me always surprised.

Yeah, I think we all know what they say: What goes around comes around

:wave:


Apart from Vettels win that year his drive in the 2008 Brazilian GP was fantastic. He showed true class fighting with hamilton in the closing stages.
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