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Is the penalty justified?
Yes - Michael deserved the penalty 32%  32%  [ 11 ]
No - The move was legal 68%  68%  [ 23 ]
Total votes : 34
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Monaco Grand Prix - Schumacher on Alonso
PostPosted: 16 May 2010, 23:23  
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The rules are so difficult. Rule 40.13 is clear. But, it might be a stupid guess, but the rule says: if the race finishes when the safetycar is deployed. Well, technicly, the safeycar was in before the race finished. There were green flags and the SC boards were gone. So I think Mercedes will point this out.
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Monaco Grand Prix - Schumacher on Alonso
PostPosted: 17 May 2010, 07:31  
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It's a classic case of contradicting rules. However the penalty is utterly ridiculous, and, given that this is a grey area, at most they should have swapped Schumi and Alonso. And to think I was silly enough to think that a green light means 'go'. :roll::

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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Monaco Grand Prix - Schumacher on Alonso
PostPosted: 17 May 2010, 08:57  
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Bad decision by the stewards. And I was expecting as Damon Hill was the representative from the drivers side. He will never ever get a chance to screw MS so he supported the stewarts. The rule is not very clear. I have seen the onboard footage. MSC made his move on ALO after the safety car line and that too when the green flag was waived.

Great move by Mercedes to appeal in the ICA against this decision.
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Monaco Grand Prix - Schumacher on Alonso
PostPosted: 17 May 2010, 10:41  
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Why 20 seconds and not 25 seconds which is normal for DTP's, or has that changed this year?

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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Monaco Grand Prix - Schumacher on Alonso
PostPosted: 17 May 2010, 10:45  
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R.? wrote:
The rules are so difficult. Rule 40.13 is clear. But, it might be a stupid guess, but the rule says: if the race finishes when the safetycar is deployed. Well, technicly, the safeycar was in before the race finished. There were green flags and the SC boards were gone. So I think Mercedes will point this out.


When I watched the race, I thought the move was legal. Then I saw Rule 40.13 and doubt crept in.

Now that I look at this again, the SC had come in, green flags and green lights were shown to the drivers and the track was clear, so, technically, the Safety Car was NOT deployed when the race ended.
The race ENDED under green flags and lights with a clear track, so this rule should NOT apply. Schumacher's overtake was legitimate.

If there had still been marshals on track clearing cars, the SC would technically STILL be deployed, yellow flags and lights would be shown and Schumi would be in the wrong.
They weren't and he wasn't .
Simple.
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Monaco Grand Prix - Schumacher on Alonso
PostPosted: 17 May 2010, 10:55  
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But the moment the green lights were shown Webber passed the finish line, which means the SC is in, so I think when you've crossed the finish line you're green and racing again. Schumacher didn't cross the finish line so he was behind the SC. And the reason why they didn't let the SC cross the finish line is because of the photos, it's not cool when you've got the SC taking the chequered flag instead of the Webber (the winner) on the front of the newspaper

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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Monaco Grand Prix - Schumacher on Alonso
PostPosted: 17 May 2010, 11:24  
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JoostLamers wrote:
But the moment the green lights were shown Webber passed the finish line, which means the SC is in, so I think when you've crossed the finish line you're green and racing again. Schumacher didn't cross the finish line so he was behind the SC. And the reason why they didn't let the SC cross the finish line is because of the photos, it's not cool when you've got the SC taking the chequered flag instead of the Webber (the winner) on the front of the newspaper


Not quite sure what you are trying to say, but the green light actually came on as the safety car crossed the 1st safety car line at the pit entrance just in front of Webber, NOT as Webber crossed the Start/Finish line. Green flags were being waved at Schumi before he even got 'round Rascasse - Safety Car no longer deployed - racing ON! Once past the 1st SC line, not the Start/Finish, you CAN overtake this year, providing there are green lights and flags, which in this case, there were....

Check out the pics on this thread - they are very illuminating....
http://forum.planet-f1.com/index.php?t= ... 9&start=0&

I know what you mean about the SC not taking the chequered flag though....

I can see this is one topic that will run and run!
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Monaco Grand Prix - Schumacher on Alonso
PostPosted: 18 May 2010, 13:07  
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bmxer4ever wrote:
[quote="JoostLamersI can see this is one topic that will run and run!



It's quite an interesting discussion. The rules are so complex and sometimes contradicting that nobody exacly knows how they work. The rule on which Schumacher got punished is clear. When the race finished under the safetycar, no overtaking is allowed. But the race did not really finish under the safetycar, as it came in on the last lap. The SC boards were gone, and there were green flags. So the last 100 meters was green flag racing. So the rules are not clear on this matter.

It was like Spa two years ago, when Hamilton was penalized for overtaking Kimi. He got penelized not for his overtake, but because the rules are not clear.
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Monaco Grand Prix - Schumacher on Alonso
PostPosted: 18 May 2010, 13:35  
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Noble: Mercedes GP has withdrawn its appeal over Schumacher's Monaco GP penalty. Story on autosport.com soon

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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Monaco Grand Prix - Schumacher on Alonso
PostPosted: 19 May 2010, 16:43  
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Under rule 40.13, which states that "if the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking," Schumacher has been given a penalty.

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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Monaco Grand Prix - Schumacher on Alonso
PostPosted: 19 May 2010, 23:08  
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In all honesty i thought schumacker did brilliantly and caught alonso sleeping but i found this from the commenrty log of the pit to lewis and it seems the were completly aware of the over taking this has now made me think i was wrong after all.

"1441:Just15carsrunningintheracenow,24started.SadlyoneofthecarstostopwasJenson'sonthesecondlapoftherace.

1445:Safetycardeployed.

1446:WehaveaLotusparkedontopofanHRTatRascasse.

Pit:"Lewisremembertobecarefularound17and18,debrisonthetrack."

1447:Theracecrewusenumberstorefertothecornerstoavoidconfusion.Rascasseis17and18.

Pit:"Lewisthisisthelastlapoftheracewe'llbefinishingbehindthesafetycar.Noovertaking."

Pit:"Lewisonthelastlapthesafetycarwillgointothepits.Thecarswillproceedtothelineandnoovertaking."

1451:LewisfinishestheMonacoGrandPrixinfifth.

HAM:"Ithoughtyousaidwecouldn'tpassafterthrsafetycar?MichaelpassedFernando."

Pit:"CongratulationsLewisyouwereP5.Thatputsussixthinthechampionship."

1455:MarkWebberwontheMonacoGrandPrix,VettelfinishessecondaheadofKubica.LewiswasfifthbehindMassa.".
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Monaco Grand Prix - Schumacher on Alonso
PostPosted: 20 May 2010, 10:11  
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The FIA will announced that the Safetycar rules will be changed, afther the Monaco incident. Because they admit that the rules are not clear on this point. Exacly the same as Hamilton at Spa. Got penalized for some unclear rule, then the rules are clearified, but Hamilton's penalty remains. In this case it's the same. But Schumacher's penalty remains.
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Monaco Grand Prix - Schumacher on Alonso
PostPosted: 20 May 2010, 12:36  
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It's a pity Mercedes aren't appealling the decision as I would loved to have seen Schumi be rewarded for such a cheeky move!
Anyone know if there's any other driver that's overtaken at Anthony Noghes corner before?
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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Monaco Grand Prix - Schumacher on Alonso
PostPosted: 20 May 2010, 13:50  
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bmxer4ever wrote:
It's a pity Mercedes aren't appealling the decision as I would loved to have seen Schumi be rewarded for such a cheeky move!
Anyone know if there's any other driver that's overtaken at Anthony Noghes corner before?

This type appeal was worthless as result of the event cannot be change or their can be no appeal against stewards decision specially (drive thru & stop go).

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 Post subject: Re: 2010 Monaco Grand Prix - Schumacher on Alonso
PostPosted: 20 May 2010, 15:58  
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bmxer4ever wrote:
... Mercedes aren't appealling the decision ...

= Mercedes know was not legal
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