mikhailv wrote:Not many start in the best car on the grid, let alone a 'good car'. Its not pushing boundries. either. mclaren and ferrari was the top 4 teams by a good 3 tenths, 4 tenths of a second. Often, massa fell behind, so all that was needed to be done was drive the car at the speed the car would go at. Lewis got too cocky, too soon. Monaco was a joke. He complained back then that he was number 2 because they were told to hold station. Then he goes and says a few years later that hes a driver who youd think you beat, but hed come back with another tenth or two and used monaco as an example. Alonso had lewis by the short and curlies that race, but few lewis fans accept that.
Indeed, Alonso was on another planet that weekend and was controlling the race. McLaren handled it badly (like they did a lot in 2007) as they pitted Hamilton at a time where he could have gone faster, so the conception was that he could have challenged Alonso which he couldn't have done.
mikhailv wrote:Webber and Alonso had plenty of preassure at minardi. Minardi always replaced drivers, Marquez was replaced by yoong at minardi in 01. Alonso was challenging the benetton of Fisichella, let alone on merit finished just outside the top 10 in japan. Backmarker teams feel just as much pressure as front running teams
The pressure is different though. The pressure of being a backmarker team is the funding to survive. The pressure of a frontrunning team is for you to deliver the title. Every race matters near the front but at the back one bad race is not a tragedy - its if you keep mucking up is when it turns bad. Don't forget that Alonso wasn't exactly vulnerable. Yes he was young, but he did have a lot of backing already.
mikhailv wrote:Disagreeing with phil is insulting him? Your insulting me then. And what makes him informed? Does he work in F1? No. He, like me, have probably read endless amounts of books and watched the season reviews like me, from VHS 78 to 2010. doesnt mean i know things, I only know whats been recorded publicly and who cares who does what with this or that. I dont care who edits the magazine, if I disagre with something i will say it. Im not going to ball suck on this forum to the regular crew around here
mikhailv wrote:I dont believe lewis set the bar for rookies. Why? There IS no wide bar for rookies. The only person who sets the bar, is the teams themselves. The minimum expectation is unique to each driver. Armchair fans? Yeah theyd probably say lewis set the bar. But fact remains, he was in the fastest car, and lewis or alonso deserved the championship equally. They finished on equal points, its no small feat to achieve, it was a solid first year. Couldnt have asked him to do more. The only thing I consider is the situation within the team. Alonso was a mard arse. But then, you watch the european GP which happened amist the arguments, and it was the start of him venting his anger on the track instead of throwing the dummy out. That to me, was the standout performance on 2007. lewis' standout performance to me, was unfortunatly marred by Kubica's crash. never the less, he was absolutly faultess that weekend, and I say its his best performance of 07, easily.
But if Lewis wasn't great then how come very very few other rookies can beat their team mate in their first season? Petrov. Where's he? Hulkenberg, AKA "The new Hamilton" - where is he? Also beating your team mate in a lower team is easier than in a big team against someone like Alonso. Hamilton scored in 15 out of 17 races (I think?) which is very impressive and Alonso in 16 out of 17 (again, I think?) and that indeed is a remarkable feat. To say that Lewis was average in his first season is just bitter.
mikhailv wrote:If lewis didnt hold up alonso in indianopolis, mclaren would be WDC. If lewis didnt go against the teams wishes, and complained in hungary, mclaren would have the WDC with alonso. But then, if Alonso drove the car in canada properly, it would have helped. If he didnt make enemies with mclaren, it would have helped.
Yeah, ifs and buts all the time happen in every season. If Alonso didn't go to the FIA McLaren would have been WCC.
mikhailv wrote:The TEAM failed BOTH drivers in my eyes. Alonso fans shouldnt put hatred to Lewis, and vice versa. Its neithers true fault, both made the same amount of mistakes overall, whether it was self inflicted or team inflicted. Digressing again
Yup, just the expectations were different. Alonso wasn't expected to throw his toys out of the pram - he was expected to act like a double world champion. Equally, McLaren were expected to favour the double world champion rather than the rookie superstar. But Alonso's issues with the tyres - issues which also hit Raikkonen - meant that mid-season Lewis had a 12 or 14 point lead which left them in a situation which was ultimately going to screw them.
mikhailv wrote:Enemies? Good for me. I like enemies. If having an alternative opinion to the regular crew means your an enemy. Im happy with that.
I have no comment to this.
No way in hell can anyone call his first season average. I certainly didnt. Only a foold would say that. And you are right regarding current rookies. Petrov and hulkenberg are nowhere against their teammates. Lewis in the end is a special driver. He showed it in GP2 that he could do some stunning performances, but then it also shows that drivers such as Piquet, and most likely petrov and hulkenberg cant cut F1. Some never make the transition successful.
And ofcourse ifs and buts happen all the time. Fact is, mclaren as a whole team, both driver and management screwed themselves. Mclaren won when they favoured 1 driver over the other in the past 4 years. Its a harsh fact, but currently, with jense and lewis being two oppositely brilliant drivers, its going to be very hard for them to win a championship unless the other bombs it or team orders is used.
Alonso didnt have THAT much backing. Briatore got the seat as his manager and then plonked the talent into testing.
Otherwise, lewis is a brilliant driver, no damn question should challenge that at all. Its just when you say he sets the bar for rookies, its very hard to agree as each rookie is in a different situation, and you cant expect every new driver to hit it. If mclaren bring in di resta one day in his first year, sure, he does have a level that is set by lewis, but then di resta is from a slightly different background than lewis.
Its just hard to set a universal bar. Nobody said villeneuve set the bar for rookies, he did damn well and had previous experience in open wheelers, but then GP can be seen as similar, because nowdays its natural for alot of drivers to kart, open wheel etc for ten+ years. Thats why I dont believe he set the bar so to speak.
and the lewis bias is true. Look at joosts post