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 Post subject: Fair overtaking ideas ?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 15:44  
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Trulli and Sutil have opened up this topic of overtaking moves. Let us discuss this along two aspects.

1. Let's take Trulli (A) / Sutil (B) case. Should driver B give way or give some road for driver A who is trying to pass him on the inside or around the outside on the edge of the road ?
Schumi started this ordeal of closing the road or pushing the driver off-track in Spa 2000. From then on it has been a common issue. Alonso running Hamilton wide in Belgium 07, Hamilton pushing Massa to the kerbs in Germany 08, Trulli blocking off Heikki in France 08 and the recent Sutil / Trulli incident in Brazil. Let us not analyze whose fault it was but rather analyze where its fair or unfair. If its unfair what do you suggest as an alternative ?

2. From Brazil 09, Webber kicked out Kimi's front wing. I don't remember as to whether he was a given a penalty or not, but shouldn't FIA give some harsh penalty like adding 25 seconds to your overall time and re-classify you in the finishing order ? I feel this would make people like Webber think twice, before they move around like this. I remember Webber venting his frustration on Montoya in 06 for cutting across and preventing an overtaking move.

My views ...
1. Its unfair to expect Sutil to concentrate on Trulli, since he was busy keeping off from slow Kimi. But Trulli's complaint on no place to go is also valid. I would suggest adding a small bit of road beyond the white line to ensure this kind of mess doesn't happen anymore. People like Alonso have pulled off moves with two wheels on grass, but the slippery side of Brazil didn't help Trulli stay on track ...

2. I felt that he should be penalized much stronger than this. If you spoil his race once with a penalty, next time he will not make that same mistake ...
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 Post subject: Re: Fair overtaking ideas ?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 15:58  
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I think this was a simple racing incident and that this is Sutil 50% fault and Trulli 50% fault.

I consider also that the real penalty must have been given to Webber who blocked hard Kimi. And, if Kimi was not having damage on his car, he would have not slow down Sutil and Trulli!

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 Post subject: Re: Fair overtaking ideas ?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 16:03  
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Yeah Agreed on both instances. Sutil should have been penalized for not giving enough room to Trulli and Trulli should have been penalized for fighting making gestures in public..

Kimi-Webber: Was really annoyed when I saw the replay after the race and realised that Webber did push Kimi on the grass. A Penalty should have been there for Webber.

I think Kimi did the right think by not talking about it after the Race and took it as a Racing Incidence. Webber should have at least agreed that he pushed Kimi.

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 Post subject: Re: Fair overtaking ideas ?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 16:23  
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Yeah Agreed on both instances. Sutil should have been penalized for not giving enough room to Trulli and Trulli should have been penalized for fighting making gestures in public..

Kimi-Webber: Was really annoyed when I saw the replay after the race and realised that Webber did push Kimi on the grass. A Penalty should have been there for Webber.

I think Kimi did the right think by not talking about it after the Race and took it as a Racing Incidence. Webber should have at least agreed that he pushed Kimi.


Why Trulli should have been penalized for "fighting making gestures in public"? I think this was a great scene and it proof that F1 has some duel (like in Nascar)

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 Post subject: Re: Fair overtaking ideas ?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 16:59  
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50-50? Sorry, did you see Trulli drive into Sutil? :O

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 Post subject: Re: Fair overtaking ideas ?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 17:13  
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Totopupu wrote:
Quote:
Yeah Agreed on both instances. Sutil should have been penalized for not giving enough room to Trulli and Trulli should have been penalized for fighting making gestures in public..

Kimi-Webber: Was really annoyed when I saw the replay after the race and realised that Webber did push Kimi on the grass. A Penalty should have been there for Webber.

I think Kimi did the right think by not talking about it after the Race and took it as a Racing Incidence. Webber should have at least agreed that he pushed Kimi.


Why Trulli should have been penalized for "fighting making gestures in public"? I think this was a great scene and it proof that F1 has some duel (like in Nascar)

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Why do you keep omitting the member's names you are quoting in your messages? Please, leave member's names, so that we can understand with whom you are quoting. The message you quote may not neccessarily just before your post. It's not healthy.


Btw, Sutil had no chance but to defend his position. It was Trulli who had huge ambition on the kerb and the one who most talked.

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 Post subject: Re: Fair overtaking ideas ?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 17:14  
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Well F Sutil, he´s a dirty prick anyway :lol:

TBH Kobayashi on Nakajima was a lot hotter, but they both shut up and continue, Trulli became a little crybaby over the years and Sutil is a dirty prick as mentioned above :lol:

The incident itself was nothing special, two cars fighting for one corner, noone giving up crash - that´s it.
Used to happen in every race in the 90´s. Not a big deal in it.

The one who could actually be pissed is Fernando, because he lost a race thanks to Trulli and Sutil.

If they both cannot stop crying over this, they should be happy that their rivals are wimps like Fisico

instead of hard drivers like Berger, Alesi, De Cesaris, Schumacher, Senna etc.

btw Jarno: Who got overtaken by Rubens in the final lap of the french GP in 2004 and lost his job?

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 Post subject: Re: Fair overtaking ideas ?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 17:16  
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Yeah. Also, Nakajima should have been furious, as should Kimi about Webber, but they didnt complain, whereas Trulli was never gonna get past Sutil: he would have been on the inside for Turn 6 and Sutil had the racing line :O IMO it should have been Trulli who got a grid penalty

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 Post subject: Re: Fair overtaking ideas ?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 17:24  
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Ali, blizzard, phil1993

- All of you have given your comments on the crash as racing incident ... any ideas on how to avoid this ?
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 Post subject: Re: Fair overtaking ideas ?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 17:26  
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blizzard wrote:
Well F Sutil, he´s a dirty prick anyway :lol:

TBH Kobayashi on Nakajima was a lot hotter, but they both shut up and continue, Trulli became a little crybaby over the years and Sutil is a dirty prick as mentioned above :lol:

The incident itself was nothing special, two cars fighting for one corner, noone giving up crash - that´s it.
Used to happen in every race in the 90´s. Not a big deal in it.

The one who could actually be pissed is Fernando, because he lost a race thanks to Trulli and Sutil.

If they both cannot stop crying over this, they should be happy that their rivals are wimps like Fisico

instead of hard drivers like Berger, Alesi, De Cesaris, Schumacher, Senna etc.

btw Jarno: Who got overtaken by Rubens in the final lap of the french GP in 2004 and lost his job?


+1 for highlighting in bold ...

We need a flamboyant italian in the league. Flavio is out, so i guess Trulli is trying to fill in ...
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 Post subject: Re: Fair overtaking ideas ?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 17:39  
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Sanredrose wrote:
Ali, blizzard, phil1993

- All of you have given your comments on the crash as racing incident ... any ideas on how to avoid this ?

Yeah, sorry for that Sanredrose. I just missed the point of the topic.

Current (vague) rule stating that one driver may wave for once to defend his position until he finally should give up his place is fine. But for this, a percentage rule might be imposed such that one driver should be at least at %60 beside the other car in order to be called "passed" the other car. I know it is impractical though.

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 Post subject: Re: Fair overtaking ideas ?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 17:41  
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Sanredrose wrote:
Ali, blizzard, phil1993

- All of you have given your comments on the crash as racing incident ... any ideas on how to avoid this ?


How to avoid the crash?

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 Post subject: Re: Fair overtaking ideas ?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 19:04  
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phil1993 wrote:
Sanredrose wrote:
Ali, blizzard, phil1993

- All of you have given your comments on the crash as racing incident ... any ideas on how to avoid this ?


How to avoid the crash?


At least you should not change ur line at last moment. :roll::

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 Post subject: Re: Fair overtaking ideas ?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 19:53  
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phil1993 wrote:
Sanredrose wrote:
Ali, blizzard, phil1993

- All of you have given your comments on the crash as racing incident ... any ideas on how to avoid this ?


How to avoid the crash?


More like how to avoid the situation ...
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 Post subject: Re: Fair overtaking ideas ?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2009, 20:58  
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Trulli wanted to fight with Sutil simply because he was training for his Nascar season for next year :)

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