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 Post subject: Re: Renault under investigation
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009, 23:42  
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dragoneak wrote:
Nobody. I think Nelson (polish commentators call him "pirouette") is stupid. Why he did it ?
I mean why did he go to FIA to complain ? I think nobody wants to have so disloyal player.
I think he will never race again in F1.

Whole this case is very unjust for whole F1 world. It's miserable. I'm getting sad when I hear next reports.
I hope that the persons who knew about this will be punished, but I hope that only them. It would by unfair if whole team would be disqualified.

Did you hear gay thread ?
This is the most pathetic train in this case.

BTW. Sorry for me English. English isn't my mother language that's why I make lot of mistakes. But I learn whole time :)


See the whole thing is planned in a fashion to get rid of Flavio. Pat Symmonds, Alonso ( if charged guilty ) are collateral damage. First of all FIA shouldn't suspend Renault from F1. Since they allowed Mclaren to continue running affairs after Ron Dennis stepped aside, they should ask Flavio to quit and the team to continue as usual. Piquet and Flavio should take their skirmish away from the Formula 1 field.
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 Post subject: Re: Renault under investigation
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 07:43  
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According to French channel TF1, should Briatore be ousted, four-times WDC Alain Prost is first in line for the position of team principal.

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 Post subject: Re: Renault under investigation
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 08:50  
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François wrote:
According to French channel TF1, should Briatore be ousted, four-times WDC Alain Prost is first in line for the position of team principal.


Oh please, it would be really nice to see Alain back in the paddock after his disastrous years with his own team.

I just want to comment on the Renault investigation in short. At first (rumours about that had been circulating right after the GP) I didn't really take those accusations seriously, on the one hand since no source of credibility stated them and on the other hand because I really didn't believe that a team is risking serious injuries not only for their own but also for the other drivers in the field, just to get a win.
Now things have changed: of course the Piquets are willing to hurt Briatore in every way they can and I personally think that it's inappropriate to battle out such a feud publicly, yet didn't the WMSC already confirm that the accident was brought about deliberately because of the telemetry?
I'd have to say, if the accusations are true this "crash-gate" will be the greatest scandal in F1 since I watch it and it would hugely dissappoint me and set back my faith in the intergrity of Formula 1.
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 Post subject: Re: Renault under investigation
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 09:29  
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PAT SYMONDS GIVEN FULL IMMUNITY

autosport wrote:
Renault director of engineering Pat Symonds has been offered immunity from punishment by the FIA if he offers full disclosure of the facts surrounding last year's Singapore Grand Prix race-fix allegations.

With less than one week to go before Renault faces the FIA World Motor Sport Council to answer charges that it asked Nelson Piquet to crash deliberately to help Fernando Alonso win, sources have confirmed to AUTOSPORT that Symonds has been given the chance of an amnesty.

The development comes on the back of interviews between Symonds, FIA representatives and members from the Quest agency at the Belgian Grand Prix where it was deemed his evidence was 'central' to finding answers to what happened in Singapore.

In the stewards' report about that interview, a copy of which has been seen by AUTOSPORT, Symonds confirms that the race-day meeting between himself, Briatore and Piquet did take place.

The stewards reports added: "Mr. Symonds accepted that he had discussed with NPJ (Piquet) the possibility of a deliberate crash at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix, although he said the suggestion was raised by NPJ."

However, Symonds then refused to answer questions about specific allegations about the events that took place that day (see separate story).

It is understood, however, that the reason to offer Symonds immunity has come from the fact that he indicated at the time that he may have further useful information.

The stewards report stated: "Mr. Symonds suggested at his interview on 27 August that he might wish to revert to the Stewards with further information, including information responsive to the various questions he had declined to answer.

"However, no such further information was provided on 27 August. On 28 August, Mr Symonds was summoned back before the Stewards to be asked if he wanted to give further information on the questions he had declined to answer. Mr Symonds again declined to answer the questions."

It is not clear if Symonds has accepted the immunity from punishment offer, but should he do so it means only Renault boss Flavio Briatore will face the FIA's WMSC without any such deal in place. FIA president Max Mosley confirmed at the Italian Grand Prix that Piquet would be exempt too.



There hunting for Briatore. Its clear as day now.
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 Post subject: Re: Renault under investigation
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 09:40  
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MavF1 wrote:
I'd have to say, if the accusations are true this "crash-gate" will be the greatest scandal in F1 since I watch it and it would hugely dissappoint me and set back my faith in the intergrity of Formula 1.


You still have faith in the integrity of Formula 1? I think I lost mine years ago. Anyone read Pat Symonds' transcripts? Anyone seen Pat Symonds' spade, you know the one he used to dig himself, the team and the sport a massive hole with!!!

It looks like BMW Sauber's rescue team may well get that grid-slot, because Renault are gonna be blasted sky-high over this.

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 Post subject: Re: Renault under investigation
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 09:42  
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Quote:
This if the official transcript of the relevant parts of an interview between FIA representatives and Pat Symonds, at the Belgian Grand Prix, discussing the Singapore Grand Prix race-fix allegations and the race morning meeting between himself, Flavio Briatore and Nelson Piquet.

FIA adviser: In your own words Mr. Symonds what do you recall being said to Nelson Piquet Jnr at that meeting? This is shortly before the race.

Symonds: I don't really remember it.

FIA adviser: You don't remember?

Symonds: No.

FIA adviser: Nelson Piquet Jnr says that he was asked by you to cause a deliberate crash. Is that true?

Symonds: Nelson had spoken to me the day before and suggested that. That's all I'd really like to say.

(...)

FIA adviser: Mr Symonds were you aware that there was going to be crash at Lap 14?

Symonds: I don't want to answer that question.

(...)

FIA adviser: There is just one thing that I ought to ask you and put it to you so you can think about it at least. Mr. Piquet Jnr says that having had the initial meeting with you and Flavio Briatore you then met him individually with the map of the circuit. Do you remember that?

Symonds: I won't answer, rather not answer that. I don't recall it but it sounds like Nelson's talked a lot more about it.

FIA adviser: Mr. Piquet Jnr also says at that meeting you pointed out a specific place on the circuit where he was to have the accident and said it was because it was the furthest away from any of the safety or lifting equipment and gave the most likely chance of a safety car being deployed.

Symonds: I don't, I don't want to answer that question.

FIA adviser: [Referring to the pre-race meeting] Was it you that did the talking at that meeting Mr. Symonds?

Symonds: I'm sure it would have been both of us but I don't know for sure. Sorry that's a contradiction. I would imagine it would be both of us that would be normal. Actually probably more often it's Flavio that does the talking himself. I wouldn't necessarily always agree with what he's saying but the majority.

FIA adviser: Because just to be absolutely clear here what Nelson Piquet Jnr has said is that at that meeting it was you that asked him to have a crash deliberately?

Symonds: I can't answer you.

FIA adviser: Can I say that if Mr. Symonds you'd been put in the position where you were made to ask Mr. Piquet Jnr to crash it's much better, it would be much better for you in the long term to tell these stewards to hear that today?

Symonds: I fully understand that.

FIA adviser: Yes.

Symonds: I have no intention of lying to you. I have not lied to you but I have reserved my position just a little.

FIA adviser: And you're aware that the stewards may draw conclusions from your unwillingness to assist them in relation to what went on in that meeting?

Symonds: I would expect them to. I would absolutely expect that.

FIA adviser: I think I haven't got any further questions.

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 Post subject: Re: Renault under investigation
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 14:09  
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'Something very unusual happened' - Mosley on Piquet crash
Spoiler:
FIA President Max Mosley admits that the crash of Nelson Piquet Jr. in last year's Singapore Grand Prix does appear to be suspect. The Renault team remains under investigation for the incident, which eventually helped team-mate Fernando Alonso to victory.

There is no doubt over the fact that Piquet's incident assisted Alonso's victory, as the Safety Car was deployed just a few minutes after the Spaniard's first pit-stop, although the FIA World Motor Sport Council (WMSC) will hear the team's official version of events on Monday 21 September.

"Certainly the data from the car indicated that something very unusual had happened on the corner where he crashed, according to the experts who look at these things," Mosley told The Guardian, "so there was enough there to make it unthinkable not to investigate. This week Renault will send in written documents but the actual hearing of their defence is next Monday."

The FIA President, who will move into retirement next month, also admits that gossip surrounding the incident reached the FIA some time ago. "Two or three months earlier I'd heard this allegation was floating around," he explained. "Of course, there was nothing one could do then because there was no evidence, it was all rumour and hearsay; so I knew the allegation existed but, yes, I was quite surprised they were actually prepared to come forward and make it.

"Nelson Piquet Sr. (father and Manager of Nelson Jr.) came to see me after the Hungarian Grand Prix in late July and said all this had happened, so I listened to him and said 'Well, if Nelson (Jr.) makes a sworn statement then obviously we'll investigate it.' The father arranged for that to happen. We then started to look at all the on-board data and all the recordings we've got of everything that happened in the car."
Code:
http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/09/15/something-very-unusual-happened-mosley-on-piquet-crash/
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 Post subject: Re: Renault under investigation
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 14:52  
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This is crazy. At autosport-forums, there are rumours at the moment that Flavio Briatore is fired at renault .... Any more news about this ?

EDIT : It's on other forums as well, they say it'll be announced tomorrow ...
EDIT 2 : Dutch F1 reporter Allard Kalff is reporting that Alain Prost has been called as the new Renault F1 teamboss :blink:
Source : http://allardkalff.angrylog.nl/


Last edited by Tom Vandenhove on 15 Sep 2009, 15:12, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Renault under investigation
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 15:09  
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Quote:
Briatore's head on the block in 'crash-gate'
Racing series F1
Date 2009-09-15

By Motorsport.com/GMM

The French carmaker Renault has reportedly offered to replace the boss of its Formula One team, Flavio Briatore.

The offer, made to the sport's governing body ahead of the 21 September hearing into the 'crash-gate' affair, was interpreted by the Spanish newspaper AS as being a move to appease the World Motor Sport Council.

Evidence about the case that has leaked to the press does not bode well for Renault, whose bosses Briatore and Pat Symonds are accused by sacked driver Nelson Piquet of ordering him to crash deliberately in Singapore a year ago.

Diario AS said Renault has offered to oust Briatore in favour of Frederic Vasseur, a boss of the GP2 team ART. Fascinatingly, Vasseur is in business with Nicolas Todt, the son of the FIA presidential candidate Jean.

Another rumoured potential replacement for Briatore is Alain Prost, and the four time world champion said at Monza: "I only know that there is a rumour, we'll see what happens."

There are other strong signs that Briatore is set to bear the brunt of the blame for the alleged order to crash.

Britain's Times newspaper reveals that, like Piquet Jr, the team's engineering director Pat Symonds has also been offered immunity if he cooperates fully with the FIA.

Symonds hinted strongly in his recent interview with FIA stewards and Quest investigators that he knows much more about the affair. He told them at the time that he did not want to answer incriminating questions because he preferred to "reserve" his position.

One assumption would be that Symonds is prepared to talk only under the cover of immunity.

The newspaper also said the investigators believe Piquet's claims are "reasonable, on balance". And Max Mosley told the Guardian: "Certainly the data from the car indicated that something very unusual had happened on the corner where he crashed."

The FIA president also agreed that "it would" be very unusual if Piquet and his famous father are risking jail sentences by criminally perjuring themselves about the events at F1's inaugural night race.

Transcripts of Renault's radio traffic in Singapore has also come to light, depicting Briatore reacting stridently to the news that Piquet, 23, had crashed.

"Fu**ing hell ... my every fu**ing disgrace, fu**ing, he's not a driver," the Italian said.
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 Post subject: Re: Renault under investigation
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 15:16  
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previous post wrote:
(...)Transcripts of Renault's radio traffic in Singapore has also come to light, depicting Briatore reacting stridently to the news that Piquet, 23, had crashed.

"Fu**ing hell ... my every fu**ing disgrace, fu**ing, he's not a driver," the Italian said.


What's wrong with that .... I'm sure Stefano Dominicale had the same thoughts when Badoer was driving :roll::
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 Post subject: Re: Renault under investigation
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 15:18  
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Full Graphic--> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia ... 14101a.pdf"



“I can tell you now we are not three-stopping,” Symonds is heard to say on the transcript made by the FIA as part of its evidence in the case, a copy of which has been seen by The Times.
Later Symonds adds to an unnamed engineer: “Don’t worry about fuel because I’m going to get him [Alonso] out of this traffic earlier than that.”
Not long afterwards comes an unusual intervention from Piquet, who was running towards the back of the field in the early stages of Formula One’s first night race. But the novelty factor for him was not the floodlights. It has now been suggested that he was worried about which lap he was on because he knew he had special instructions for lap 14.

Piquet says: “What lap are we in, what lap are we in?”
A few seconds later an engineer tells the others on the wall: “He just asked: ‘What lap are we in?’ ”

Symonds intervenes: “Yeah, tell him that he’s about to complete lap 8.”

Symonds insists Piquet is then told something he should know from his pitboard, which is shown to him at the end of every lap. “No, just tell him, he is about, he’s just completing, he’s about to complete lap eight.”
After Piquet is given the information, the discussion returns to the timing of Alonso’s first stop and Symonds makes his decision. “Right, I’m going to . . . I think we’re going to stop him just before we catch him [a reference to the Williams driver, Kazuki Nakajima, who was ahead of Alonso] and get him out of it, the reason being we’ve still got this worry on the fuel pump. It’s only a couple of laps short. We’re going to be stopping him early and we’re going to go to lap 40.”

This decision prompts an engineer, who wants assurance from Symonds that a tactical option that would drop Alonso to last is the right thing to do. “Pat, do you still not think that this is a bit too early?” he asks a few minutes later. “We only did six tenths that lap.”

Symonds replies: “No, no it’s going to be all right.”
“OK, OK, understood,” the engineer responds.
Once Alonso has made his stop, Symonds tells everybody that it is time to “concentrate on” Piquet. After assessing the Brazilian’s position, he and Briatore decide Piquet has to quicken up as the fateful lap draws near.
Symonds to the engineer: “OK right, you’ve got to push him really bloody hard now. If he doesn’t get past Barrichello, he’s going nowhere, he’s got to get past Barrichello this lap.”
“Tell him, push . . .,” Briatore says.

Piquet’s race engineer gives him the hurry-up: “Nelson, no excuses now, you’ve got to get past Barrichello. You’ve got four clicks straight-line advantage. Come on, you’ve got to push now, you must get past him.”
Moments later Piquet crashes at turn 17, where there are no cranes to lift the wreckage, making a safety car inevitable, and at the point at which he alleges Symonds told him to do the deed during a meeting before the race.
Multiple voices: “Nelson’s off. F***ing hell. Nelson’s had a crash. I would say that would be a red flag. It’s huge [all speaking at the same time] .


Piquet: “Sorry guys. I had a little outing.”
Engineer: “Is he all right, Is he all right?”
Symonds: “Ask him if he’s all right.”
Engineer: “Are you OK? Are you OK?”
Engineer: “Fernando’s just gone past it.”
Engineer: “OK, yellow flag.”
Piquet: “Yeah, I hit my head in the back. I think I’m OK.”
Engineer: “OK, understood.”
Symonds: “Right [inaudible], stop him.”
Engineer: “Safety car, safety car, safety car, safety car. Fernando, safety car, mixture three.”
Symonds: “Tell him to be careful, turn 17 I think it is.”
After several exchanges about Alonso, an engineer expresses concern, presumably after seeing the crash on the television monitor, but Briatore seems unconcerned and is angry with Piquet.
Engineer: “F***ing hell that was a big shunt.”
Briatore: “F***ing hell . . . my every f***ing disgrace, f***ing, he’s not a driver.”
Then Symonds asks about Alonso’s suddenly improving prospects.
Symonds: “What position is Fernando in?”
Engineer: “Well, we were 20, and we’re first guy to pick the safety car up.”
Symonds: “Yeah, we’re not . . .”
Engineer: “He will get away past it but he’s got to wait.”
Later Briatore and Symonds discuss Alonso’s chances. “What position we are now in all this?” asks Briatore.
Symonds replies: “To be honest, I don’t know Flavio. It’s got to have been good for Fernando. But I honestly don’t know where he is.”
In the final part of the transcript, several minutes after the crash, the Renault team return to the subject of Piquet and his condition and at this stage Briatore adds his own concern for the young Brazilian driver’s welfare.
Engineer: “Where is Nelson? Have you seen him?”
Briatore: “Is he OK, Nelson? Is he OK?”
Alonso: “The pitlane is closed until we arrive?”
Engineer: “He climbed out, mate, and ran across the track.”
Engineer: “Yeah, the pitlane is still closed.”
Taken as a whole the transcript does not provide a killer-blow against Symonds or Briatore and could be read either way.

The FIA, the sport’s governing body, is known to be particularly concerned that the alleged conspiracy not only amounted to cheating but also involved a reckless act that could have resulted in injury or loss of life.
The pitwall recording shows that, on this score, the Renault team were also extremely concerned about Piquet’s safety.



Extract from:


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article6834552.ece
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 Post subject: Re: Renault under investigation
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 16:08  
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:thumbsup: Great ! Thanks for sharing this document with us :)
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 Post subject: Re: Renault under investigation
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 16:13  
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Tom Vandenhove wrote:
This is crazy. At autosport-forums, there are rumours at the moment that Flavio Briatore is fired at renault .... Any more news about this ?

EDIT : It's on other forums as well, they say it'll be announced tomorrow ...
EDIT 2 : Dutch F1 reporter Allard Kalff is reporting that Alain Prost has been called as the new Renault F1 teamboss :blink:
Source : http://allardkalff.angrylog.nl/

well yeah prost had a team in the late 90's, so he might do well.
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 Post subject: Re: Renault under investigation
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 16:35  
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To be honest, that transcript doesnt seem to prove much about anything.

If you look at briatore's body language and combine it with these transcripts, i can fully agree that is how briatore would act. I mean what about the times he's f'd and blinded when fisichella crashed, and trulli crashed in 04-06?

He expects the best out of his drivers, if not, he drops them. Did it with button, did with trulli aswell.

Thats inconclusive in all honesty. I mean symonds changing alonso to come in earlier, he explains it there- he's catching kazuki and its not working out peachy like they thought, bring him in and put him onto a two stop, try get some points salvaged.

Its all massive coincidence. it seems from the transcripts theres confusion about piquet asking what lap he's on from within the pitwall, and pats just going 'tell him lap 8'.

And its the ENGINEER who tells piquet to get the hurry on, and that he must overtake barrichello, otherwise he's behind him the whole race..... it seems pretty bog standard and further correlates with the fact that he's been told to push before and the same results has happened.

Regarding the telemetry, on another forum, theres been the suggestion that piquet kept his foot in the accelerator to try and spin the car 360 degree celcious. If you look at the crash, it does look asif he was trying to spin the car around, but ran out of track, if he was going slower into the corner, he may just have 360'd it and come out ok, not to mention the fact that he ended up crashing off the racing line with wat, 6 cars BEHIND him coming at him with full anger.

Im not saying thats true, but that made me think its a possibility.

That, and i recall lewis saying he had his crash last race at monza and he didnt lift his foot off the throttle till impact.... I know, different corner and faster speed, but it could just be the fact that it was a surprise to piquet????

Mere speculation on my part, but its worth a thought.
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 Post subject: Re: Renault under investigation
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 16:39  
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shail69 wrote:
well yeah prost had a team in the late 90's, so he might do well.

Yeah, Prost would be a good teamboss for renault .... I'm sure about that
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