Renault Race Fixing - ING terminate Renault deal

[sdutt]

Just to correct MR Lauda:

The worst scandal in F1 history was spygate in 2007 and the fact that McLaren got away with such a light penalty.
They manipulated a whole season and it was actually a crinminal act (industrial spying), whereas Renault only fixed one race and it wasn´t criminal. More like a dive in football which gives your team an undeserved penalty kick and you win by scoring it.

What mClaren did was way worse in my oppinion, especially because they always get away with it. 2007 was bad enough, but in Melbourne this year they still tried to fool the stewards and the other competitors by cheating and got away with it again.

People always say that the FIA is pro Ferrari, well McLaren got away with everything. Some very very ugly things, but neither the FIA nor the fans bothered too much about it.

If Renault get banned or excluded from the championship, i´ll stop watching F1 as long as McLaren race.

though i agree with you entirely on the mclaren bit, i do not agree with the renault comparison, only because a dive in football would never have risk of taking other persons life other than your own (and that is if the football player is crazy)

[Zack]

Id like to pose a question to everyone.

Has cheating been going on in F1 for over 5 years? I say this, as the technical veto ferrari had, meant they could do anything under the sun that other teams were disallowed. This veto, game them a legalised, cheating advantage which all the other teams UNKNOWINGLY knew of and had.

Has the corrupt FIA been cheating fans out of true world champions? Coulthard and Raikkonen most likely would have had world championships in 2000-2004. The 5 years of the veto.

Id like to ask, how the FIA can be so critical of renault, when they fully supported and gave ferrari the ability to cheat fans year in year out with a car that often nobody could touch, because the FIA wouldnt LET anyone touch it.

Just wondering what everyone thinks.

^ Disgruntled Renault fan

He's not the only one.

EDIT: A fantastic summary of the case and all the surrounding furore is on Autosport here.



It's almost funny, like a bad disaster film or a buddy comedy, reading the report and seeing how Renault managed to twist itself into trouble and screw itself over like this. ALMOST.

[Ferrari mode aka Nigel Tozzi]

Disgruntled or not! But for why always Ferrari

* Ferrari had veto for ages and everybody KNEW about it including Williams who recently claimed they were not unaware of it... then proved opposite; Williams are nothing but bloody liars, they lied during Senna's trial they are used to it

* Ferrari never used veto power. WMSC on record.

* Ferrari's Veto not so powerful to win WDC's

Has the corrupt FIA been cheating fans out of true world champions? Coulthard and Raikkonen most likely would have had world championships in 2000-2004. The 5 years of the veto

hahaha

majority of it is *BS* .. i would like to refrain myself here.

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My guess is main accused are Pat & Nelson ... Idea - Plan & Executioner

[JoostLamers]

So what'll happen in court? Briatore and Symonds never ever back in F1?

[TwistedArmco]

Has cheating been going on in F1 for over 5 years? I say this, as the technical veto ferrari had, meant they could do anything under the sun that other teams were disallowed. This veto, game them a legalised, cheating advantage which all the other teams UNKNOWINGLY knew of and had.

How can you "unkowingly" know of something? That's like silently saying something. The teams were all aware of it.

Id like to ask, how the FIA can be so critical of renault, when they fully supported and gave ferrari the ability to cheat fans year in year out with a car that often nobody could touch, because the FIA wouldnt LET anyone touch it.

Just wondering what everyone thinks.

I think you've misunderstood the idea of a technical veto. This didn't give Ferrari the right to used trick parts or anything, it just gave them the right to a veto (look on wikipedia) that as Zack said, they never used anyway, and that the other teams were wholly aware of.



I'm not remotely a Ferrari fan, even if Nando goes there, but you can't just make everything a conspiracy. Flavio and Pat were sniffed out and cut loose by Renault. Renault are not the put-upon underdogs, they're a championship winning organization, two members of which tried to manipulate a result. It is fairly serious, and I think the right thing to do is ban them from F1 for a few years, and not harm anyone else, especially the staff and mechanics.

However, the guy in the Times or whatever it was talking about the greatest cheat in sporting history is such a pompous as$hole. You can crash a car in a controlled way very easily as Eddie Irvine, A DRIVER OF CARS emphasized, and god knows Eddie and Nelson are practised at crashing. The stupid PC, beaurocratic idiots will say he could have killed someone, and that because of the (slight) danger, this is the most condemnable act i sport, but it's really not as bad as all that. Get a grip people, Piquet's crash came nowhere near to killing or hurting anyone, and in the grand scheme of things is probably just as bad as "spygate", no more.

[hannibal_rising]

Just to correct MR Lauda:

The worst scandal in F1 history was spygate in 2007 and the fact that McLaren got away with such a light penalty.
They manipulated a whole season and it was actually a crinminal act (industrial spying), whereas Renault only fixed one race and it wasn´t criminal. More like a dive in football which gives your team an undeserved penalty kick and you win by scoring it.

What mClaren did was way worse in my oppinion, especially because they always get away with it. 2007 was bad enough, but in Melbourne this year they still tried to fool the stewards and the other competitors by cheating and got away with it again.

People always say that the FIA is pro Ferrari, well McLaren got away with everything. Some very very ugly things, but neither the FIA nor the fans bothered too much about it.

If Renault get banned or excluded from the championship, i´ll stop watching F1 as long as McLaren race.

Did you forget that someone from Ferrari sent the documents to McLaren? (and precisely the first year of Ferrari without Schumacher)
Nobody never asked about his reasons to do it... or if it was an order to win that vital championship at any cost...
Anyway, all the teams copy things from the rest of the grid. Just look at the evolution of the cars year after year and you will see it. a modern F1 car is a 40% McLaren Design, a 40% Ferrari Design plus some customization.
Moreover, Do you remember that in 2007 there were some talking about Renault having information of the McLaren? Those meetings between Dennis and Briatore?
To fix a race in this way is far worse, and the worst thing is that Alonso is again in the middle of something illegal (in McLaren he was one that knew about the documents of Ferrari and wanted to use them). I hope he really does not nothing about this problem.

[Zack]

Just to correct MR Lauda:

The worst scandal in F1 history was spygate in 2007 and the fact that McLaren got away with such a light penalty.
They manipulated a whole season and it was actually a crinminal act (industrial spying), whereas Renault only fixed one race and it wasn´t criminal. More like a dive in football which gives your team an undeserved penalty kick and you win by scoring it.

What mClaren did was way worse in my oppinion, especially because they always get away with it. 2007 was bad enough, but in Melbourne this year they still tried to fool the stewards and the other competitors by cheating and got away with it again.

People always say that the FIA is pro Ferrari, well McLaren got away with everything. Some very very ugly things, but neither the FIA nor the fans bothered too much about it.

If Renault get banned or excluded from the championship, i´ll stop watching F1 as long as McLaren race.

Did you forget that someone from Ferrari sent the documents to McLaren? (and precisely the first year of Ferrari without Schumacher)
Nobody never asked about his reasons to do it... or if it was an order to win that vital championship at any cost...
Anyway, all the teams copy things from the rest of the grid. Just look at the evolution of the cars year after year and you will see it. a modern F1 car is a 40% McLaren Design, a 40% Ferrari Design plus some customization.
Moreover, Do you remember that in 2007 there were some talking about Renault having information of the McLaren? Those meetings between Dennis and Briatore?
To fix a race in this way is far worse, and the worst thing is that Alonso is again in the middle of something illegal (in McLaren he was one that knew about the documents of Ferrari and wanted to use them). I hope he really does not nothing about this problem.

We shouldn't be going back again Anyways, just before Mclaren Spy Saga; Mclaren & Ferrari had signed Fair Competition pact in which both teams agreed to report back any technical leaks to each other

To Measure gravity of this 'scandals' is almost impossible.In every scandal,objective is always the same 'To Win'. F1 is very strong, somehow it get backs to business after every setback.

TBH ... Fia punished Mclaren leniently and its VERY FAIR that Renault should punished with the same mindset considering all aspects(Company .. Jobs .. etc etc). But having said that Technical Saga's are more damaging than fixtures on long term basis and damages competition indirectly & its more foolproof.

[alper206]

Sorry, but there’s no way that Alonso did know nothing about this. Just think a little more: you are starting a street race (where overtaking is very hard) 1 place behind your team mate at the far end of the grid and fuelled for only 14 laps on a three stopper! Strange strategy to begin with!! Ok,moving on, you won the race with a huge help (not to mention about the timing!) of the safety car and guess what?? The man who crashed was your teammate... and the good thing is, you have full access to his telemetry data from which a racing driver can easily understand that the accident was ‘kind of strange’!!! And also, looking at the leaked dossier, the only ‘technical proof’ FIA have at hand is those telemetry data from Nelson’s car and their comparisons with Alonso’s.

I am not saying Alonso is a part of the plan (and I think he is not), but admit it guys: He knows everything about what actually had happened, at least indirectly... only he didn’t blow the whistle. That’s it.

[TwistedArmco]

Sorry, but there’s no way that Alonso did know nothing about this. Just think a little more: you are starting a street race (where overtaking is very hard) 1 place behind your team mate at the far end of the grid and fuelled for only 14 laps on a three stopper! Strange strategy to begin with!! Ok,moving on, you won the race with a huge help (not to mention about the timing!) of the safety car and guess what?? The man who crashed was your teammate... and the good thing is, you have full access to his telemetry data from which a racing driver can easily understand that the accident was ‘kind of strange’!!! And also, looking at the leaked dossier, the only ‘technical proof’ FIA have at hand is those telemetry data from Nelson’s car and their comparisons with Alonso’s.

I am not saying Alonso is a part of the plan (and I think he is not), but admit it guys: He knows everything about what actually had happened, at least indirectly... only he didn’t blow the whistle. That’s it.

I agree that I think he knew after the actual event, but I don't think he was part of the masterplan. If I interpret his usual moods and actions correctly, I doubt he even said anything about it even to Flav or Pat.

Question though; why would he want to look at Piquet's crash telemetry? And if he had an inkling of it, I don't think he'd have delved any deeper in case he rocked the boat. Not saying he shouldn't have done something about, just saying it's entirely understandable that he did do nothing, and wasn't part of it.

[iceman1]

Nelson Piquet Snr claims that he first alerted the FIA about the fixing of the result of the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix at Interlagos just five weeks later.

Full story

Lauda says the FIA needs to come down hard on Renault.

"When I first heard the accusation that Renault had asked Nelson Piquet to crash deliberately, the question was whether it was true or not," he told the Daily Mail.
"If it was true, then it amounted to the worst thing that has happened in Formula One.

"There is only one other incident that comes near - Michael Schumacher parking his Ferrari on the racing line at Monaco in 2006 to block Fernando Alonso's last qualifying lap.

[Tom Vandenhove]

Nelson Piquet Snr claims that he first alerted the FIA about the fixing of the result of the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix at Interlagos just five weeks later.

That's Flavio talk ... Like, "Hey, let's do mr. Briatore a pleasure. Let's wait until we can't change the race results anymore"
But as a renault fan, I don't think it's that bad

[phil1993]

Nelson Piquet Snr is threatening to take Flavio Briatore to court in the hope of extricating his son from the deal in place with the disgraced Renault team boss.

Despite the 'crashgate' scandal that resulted in Briatore resigning from his position on Wednesday, and Piquet Jnr becoming virtually unemployable, the Italian still manages the young Brazilian.

Remarkably, Piquet Jnr has a contract in place that would see him give up 20% of his earnings to Briatore over the next 15 years.

Piquet Snr is now awaiting the verdict from the World Motor Sport Council hearing on Monday before determining whether to pursue a case against the 59-year-old Italian.

"I could not talk to other team members about it (the contract), because Nelsinho was working for Flavio and his management has a contract with the team," Piquet Snr told Auto Motor und Sport in Germany.

"Now I finally have something- contract violation - to put pressure on Flavio.

"If the FIA world council confirms the case, I will have a hold for going to court."

The WMSC meet in Paris to review their case, and issue any penalty, against Renault over charges of conspiracy relating to last year's Singapore Grand Prix.

In deciding not to dispute the allegation made by the FIA, Renault have effectively admitted conspiring with Piquet Jnr of causing a crash to the advantage of Fernando Alonso.

That is despite Briatore's assertion last Friday in Monza that no wrongdoing took place, and that he had the support of the team.

Briatore also commenced criminal proceedings that day against the Piquets concerning the making of false allegations and a related attempt to blackmail.

Former three-time world champion Piquet Snr, though, admits he has nothing to fear on that score, telling Briatore: "Just go ahead."

He added: "I have enough money to afford the best lawyers. And what is he going to trial for? Does he want to put the truth on trial?"

Piquet Snr, who initially blew the whistle on the saga to the FIA, believes Briatore felt he was fireproof given his prior standing in Formula One.

"At a certain point people like Flavio have so much power, they believe they can walk on water," remarked Piquet Snr.

"He obviously thought, even though there was lots of proof, no-one could catch him."

The WMSC, meanwhile, appear set to review their policy in relation to punishing team members following this latest story to damage F1.

Under FIA regulations, as neither Briatore nor Renault's former executive director of engineering Pat Symonds are now no longer associated with a licence holder - that applies to drivers and teams only - no formal action may be taken against them under the International Sporting Code.

Although the Council have unlimited power when it comes to imposing a penalty against Renault, they are now powerless to act against Briatore and Symonds, despite the severity of the case.

It is why an amendment to the ISC seems set to be debated, and if agreed upon, will allow the FIA to act in the future.

And this is the worst cheating offence in the history of sport - let alone F1. They deliberately endangered the lives of Piquet, fans, marshalls, other drivers - just for some points... Disgraceful.

[Totopupu]

Why all guys says this is one of the worst cheating?

I agree with eddie irvine (http://www.f1central.fr/actualites/1/87 ... riche.html) and I think this is not the first and not the last cheating.

when Ferrari wanted to see schumi 1st, they say to barrichello to slowing his car and no one was shocked.

when stepney has damage kimi car in monaco 07, no one was shocked

when Renault has spying Mclaren, no one was shocked

when ...

[f1anatic]

So how much you wanna bet that your boyzzz Flavio and Pat will work their way to the management of the new up-and-coming teams. Like Lotus...

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=46914
Lotus boss chasing experienced names

Not that stranger things have not happened. Perhaps Flavio really did give that order trying to save Renault by giving them a victory last year. And he may have quit knowing that no matter what; Renault was not gonna stick around for much longer. Maybe he was pushed out; very likely. But you know, Flavio was once in charge of Benetton-Renault. Then he was pushed aside by Dave Richards who ,between 1998 and 1999, led Benetton. His name again is again circulated as a Briatore replacement. Yet Flavio made it back in two years. Nowadays, a comeback is even more likely. He may have burnt a few bridges with Renault but even if he falls, he falls on his feet.

Although Malaysian entrepreneur Fernandes, who runs budget airline AirAsia, was announced as the outfit’s team principal, the 45-year-old has revealed he plans to hand over the reigns to someone else shortly after the start of its first season.

“The team principal [position] is not something that is going to be permanent," he told Reuters.

"I am going to get it [the team] to a stage and then someone can do it full time, properly.

"My job is AirAsia and I just want to make sure that we [Lotus] have the right direction, the right imaging and the right future, the right strategic plan and marketing.”

And questioned about when he might step aside, he added: "I think up to about Melbourne, maybe.

"Maybe I'll enjoy being the team principal for a couple of races and I think then we'd move it on to someone else."

He added that while it would be nice to have a Malaysian national in the top job, it would be better to start off with an experienced hand.

“I would say probably we would buy in experience," he added.

Does anyone know of a prominent Team Principal that is available and looking to shock everyone ? :-)

___

P.S. I am not shocked at Flavio (et co.) or any other team in F1 cheating or fixing the race results, including asking Nelson to crash. And I am not blaming him either nor do I want him out of F1 for that alone. I am Schumi's biggest fan in the galaxy but Michael won a few that he did not deserve and it was the same. What I am amazed at is the sheer stupidity of Nelson Piquet Junior who has little talent and who accepted to do this, thinking it would further his career, without any promissory notes. He was and remains mentally distressed just like in his FIA statement.

[impatientinventor]

Possibly I'm missing something here but no one seems to be talking about potential jail time for Flav, Nelson and Pat in Singapore. Conspiracy to commit fraud is an extraditable offense in Singapore and can have a penalt of 14 years in Prison. The statute is applicable and all the evidence they need is already in the public record, is now uncontested and no one seems to be thinking about this. Can you imagine Flav's kid being a teenager before his dear old dad gets out of jail? Naaa.... No one makes it to 73 in a Hong Kong jail.

[Zack]

src : http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Articl ... 002&mode=1